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TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

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Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#51

Post by oh_sigh »

carlosdp wrote: post #28
oh_sigh wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no requirement that US based lawyers must be US citizens.

There is very much a constitutional requirement that the government can't tell you you can't have the lawyer you want because they are a US citizen. That's a clear violation of the 14th amendment right to due process...

A part of due process is the opportunity to be represented by counsel. Unless there are few or no quality lawyers who are not US citizens, I don't see how this would infringe on anyone's due process. Not being able to get the exact lawyer you want is not the same as your due process being violated.

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#52

Post by ta17711771 »

djsumdog wrote: post #11
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #4

Completely expected. Trump doesn’t really have a good track record in coming up with legal executive orders, while Tiktok is completely in their rights to contest this order. And...judicial review is what sets the USA apart from China.

You realize US presidents have imposed embargo via executive orders against nations for decades right? Cuba? Huawei? Whether you think it's right or wrong, legally, it has prescient.

precedent

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#53

Post by blisseyGo »

dodobirdlord wrote: post #48
boublepop wrote: post #17

Seems natural. The only proof he has of the claims of risks against national security seems to be his typical wild ramblings of “a lot of people say! Everyone knows! Just read the manuals, read the books!” While not being able to mention a single name or fact. If trump forces trough this sale, the EU are bring morons if they don’t forcefully take over EU facebooks and LinkedIn business by Wednesday next week.

The claim isn’t a dispute about the legitimacy of the national security grounds, that will probably come later. The claim is that the EO prohibits retaining US lawyers, which is pretty clearly a violation of due process.

Regarding the retaining US lawyers part - I think it would fall under FARA:

https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#54

Post by Yetanfou »

chrischen wrote: post #33
slowhadoken wrote: post #6

Seems bold considering China’s firewall and all the US social media and chat apps it’s banned.

I’m Chinese but you wouldn’t preface my actions with “consider China’s firewall.”

That depends on whether you're controlled by the Chinese state. If you are, someone might well say this. The root question is whether TT/BD is/are controlled by the state. Given the size of the company and the CCP drive to control "large" (a flexible concept - which intensified after Xi Jinping came to power - it is not unreasonable to assume the state has significant influence.

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#55

Post by abc-xyz »

nine_zeros wrote: post #47
chrisco255 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not forced to sell. They would simply lose access to the US market. They've already lost access to the Indian market.

No. Trumps delayed ban is for a wiggle room for an American company (Microsoft) to acquire US and other non-China assets. This effectively means that the app is not a national security threat but the ownership of it is. And that threat was as determined by the executive without any charges. I am opposed to such unilateral powers where the executive plays godfather and decides the rules of the game.

Are you against executive orders in general or just this one?

Because surely one of the most popular social media platforms in the world, operated by the enemy, with access to troves of personal user data that can be used for election interference, blackmail, propaganda, etc. is a national security threat.

And yes, other social media platforms, including Facebook, pose national security threats as well, but it’s up to the elected officials to decide how significant the threat is, and when/if it’s necessary to take action. With regard to TikTok and WeChat, I’d say it’s long overdue, and I personally hope the list will be expanded to include all software and hardware operated by Chinese companies.

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#56

Post by r00fus »

carlosdp wrote: post #19

> The source familiar with TikTok's internal discussions on the matter says the president's order appeared rushed and did not include carveouts or exceptions for TikTok to maintain any legal representation, which the company plans to argue is a violation of due process rights. This is the important part for me and the reason the order could actually be overturned and need to be redone. The administration keeps doing…

Is it possible that the administration doesn’t actually want to ban Tik-Tok but simply remove them as a factor for the election?

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#57

Post by dodobirdlord »

blisseyGo wrote: post #53
dodobirdlord wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim isn’t a dispute about the legitimacy of the national security grounds, that will probably come later. The claim is that the EO prohibits retaining US lawyers, which is pretty clearly a violation of due process.

Regarding the retaining US lawyers part - I think it would fall under FARA: https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara

The EO imposes a prohibition on financial transactions between US citizens (and probably also residents?) and ByteDance, so they wouldn't be able to pay their lawyers even if registered. So it's essentially a ban on having lawyers

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#58

Post by foogazi »

r00fus wrote: post #56
carlosdp wrote: post #19

> The source familiar with TikTok's internal discussions on the matter says the president's order appeared rushed and did not include carveouts or exceptions for TikTok to maintain any legal representation, which the company plans to argue is a violation of due process rights. This is the important part for me and the reason the order could actually be overturned and need to be redone. The administration keeps doing…

Is it possible that the administration doesn’t actually want to ban Tik-Tok but simply remove them as a factor for the election?

Is Tik-Tok considered an election factor?

Re: TikTok to Sue Trump Administration over Ban, as Soon as Tuesday

#60

Post by alfiedotwtf »

ponker wrote: post #46
jychang wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying the USA is a totalitarian state now?

Yes, the entire state apparatus bows to the whims of one man, which is almost definitionally a totalitarian state. We’re lucky, at the moment, that the totalitarian in charge has few concrete ideas and lacks the attention span to see through even those few.

Thank you. I can’t believe not everyone is seeing this.
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