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Deep Work and the 30-Hour Method for Learning a New Skill (2018)

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Re: Deep Work and the 30-Hour Method for Learning a New Skill (2018)

#51

It's easy to dismiss "Deep Work" articles for their use of buzzwords and pop-psychology, but this sort of structured language really does help drive the point home for some people. The core concept of Deep Work isn't really controversial. Everyone knows that hard problems require focus, but that doesn't seem to stop people from surrounding themselves with notifications and distractions. It also doesn't stop many comp…

I greatly appreciate this, as someone who has had a very difficult time avoiding distractions (slack, email, meetings, etc) and tries to convey that I need time to not context switch constantly. I know I'm not the only one because other developers I work with have the same complaints but we keep winding up in environments where it's just kosher and "its how we do things" with regard to meetings and interruptions.

Do you tell managers this as well? That the developers need deep focus time? I've been fighting for this my entire career, it's nearly always our managers not shielding us from interruptions that have been my problem.

I'm not sure if the distractions you're referring to are people just scrolling through twitter all day and not working or actual work distractions.

Re: Deep Work and the 30-Hour Method for Learning a New Skill (2018)

#52

I'm tired of those self improvement hack 2 cents worth. Do what you love people, just focus on life and don't use all the time process. Process is made for stupid repetitive task, not learning. This society is so individualist, that we talk only about the self.

What's the greatest accomplishment your aware of that didn't involve some "time process"?

Re: Deep Work and the 30-Hour Method for Learning a New Skill (2018)

#53
post #39

How do you balance the want/willingness to do deep work with the external pressures of the tech world that result in new fires emerging constantly?

Doing deep work in early mornings should fix your problem. Usually the fires start after the managers/boss/teammates arrive in the office. In the morning you just can ignore everything because no one is expecting you to be available.

Re: Deep Work and the 30-Hour Method for Learning a New Skill (2018)

#54
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds very similar to Hyperfocus[1] from the AD(H)D world which is something I became very interested in for a while. There are certain subjects that can sustain a state of hyperfocus for me and certain subjects that make me question if I'd had enough sleep. On the surface this sounds a bit psuedo-sciency as if asked anyone would say "yeah I also have things that interest me or don't..." but there's certainly someth…

My main problem is guiding hyperfocus to the thing that needs to get done right now . I have a weird anxiety avoidance that makes me willing to do almost anything, including very hard things, if it isn't the thing that is necessary. I can hyperfocus on just about anything else. I've slowly learned to redirect back to the necessary thing, but its been a decades long path to overcome the tendency.

Meditation helped me out with my ADHD way, way more than I expected. It took about a month of daily 10-20 minute practice but it gave me this control over my racing thoughts and shiny distractions that felt completely foreign to me. Like oh, I do have this willpower muscle I just haven't been using it much.

I'm speaking in past tense because since covid I haven't meditated and my mind has become a racing mess. If you can will yourself into doing it I'd highly recommend trying it. You can always stop if you don't see a benefit.

Re: Deep Work and the 30-Hour Method for Learning a New Skill (2018)

#55
post #51

It's easy to dismiss "Deep Work" articles for their use of buzzwords and pop-psychology, but this sort of structured language really does help drive the point home for some people. The core concept of Deep Work isn't really controversial. Everyone knows that hard problems require focus, but that doesn't seem to stop people from surrounding themselves with notifications and distractions. It also doesn't stop many comp…

I greatly appreciate this, as someone who has had a very difficult time avoiding distractions (slack, email, meetings, etc) and tries to convey that I need time to not context switch constantly. I know I'm not the only one because other developers I work with have the same complaints but we keep winding up in environments where it's just kosher and "its how we do things" with regard to meetings and interruptions. Do…

> Do you tell managers this as well? That the developers need deep focus time?

It's a delicate balance. When I was in a manager-of-managers position, I didn't explicitly micromanage how managers ran their teams or run their days. People don't respond well to that. Instead, I tried to lead by example by setting my own focus hours, giving ample notice for upcoming meetings, setting expectations for response times at the tops of e-mail messages, and so on. If you try to create an atmosphere that fosters sustained focus throughout the whole company, people tend to notice. If a specific manager becomes bad about interruptions, we'd have an offline conversation.

> I'm not sure if the distractions you're referring to are people just scrolling through twitter all day and not working or actual work distractions.

It's not an either-or. It's always both. It's not uncommon for juniors devs to complain that their workplace doesn't let them focus while their phone buzzes every 5 minutes from some notifications that they've opted-in to receive.

Work distractions tend to trigger people to check Twitter, HN, Reddit, or other sites before they get back to work. It's easy to turn a 5-minute work interruption into a 15-minute break because getting back into focus is an uphill battle. It's much easier and more enjoyable to catch up on those notifications on your phone.

The difference is that people tend to overlook the distraction of notifications they like, and instead blame everything on the notifications for distractions they don't like.

One of the most valuable skills people can learn is how to return to focus quickly. That's not to say that distractions are okay, but it's up to the person to cultivate a habit of descending back into their work as efficiently as possible when interrupted.

Re: Deep Work and the 30-Hour Method for Learning a New Skill (2018)

#56
Ah, I thought we were just about due for a revisit on the importance of Deep Work. I'll take this an an opportunity to paste one of the highlights from the book I found to be interesting:

"As the journalist Daniel Coyle surveys in his 2009 book, The Talent Code , these scientists increasingly believe the answer includes myelin—a layer of fatty tissue that grows around neurons, acting like an insulator that allows the cells to fire faster and cleaner. To understand the role of myelin in improvement, keep in mind that skills, be they intellectual or physical, eventually reduce down to brain circuits. This new science of performance argues that you get better at a skill as you develop more myelin around the relevant neurons, allowing the corresponding circuit to fire more effortlessly and effectively. To be great at something is to be well myelinated. This understanding is important because it provides a neurological foundation for why deliberate practice works. By focusing intensely on a specific skill, you’re forcing the specific relevant circuit to fire, again and again, in isolation. This repetitive use of a specific circuit triggers cells called oligodendrocytes to begin wrapping layers of myelin around the neurons in the circuits—effectively..."

This seems to be supportive to the argument for deep work. Happy myelination, everyone.

Re: Deep Work and the 30-Hour Method for Learning a New Skill (2018)

#57

I'm tired of those self improvement hack 2 cents worth. Do what you love people, just focus on life and don't use all the time process. Process is made for stupid repetitive task, not learning. This society is so individualist, that we talk only about the self.

Maybe that was possible 50-100 years ago when you were not living in a global village where everyone around the world can come and knock on your door and demand your attention. Nowadays we need to constantly remind ourselves that we need to find time for uninterrupted focus. And these articles about deep work are just that for me, reminders.

Re: Deep Work and the 30-Hour Method for Learning a New Skill (2018)

#58

Sometimes I wish HN would have an almanac of topic themes that keep coming up. Flow/Deep Work seem to be a constantly recurrent theme, as is “imposter syndrome” and other pseudoscientific garbage that people discuss with high authority, quoting this and that author. For the next poster that wants to toss their hat into the ring, please do a piece on the Quiet Eye. I’d love to hear your thoughts on it.

So why do you think these subjects keep popping up on HN? Maybe because there is a unsatisfied need and these articles are addressing the demand. I'm sincerely curious, because I actually like to read these kinds of articles that you are dismissing as pseudo-scientific garbage.

Re: Deep Work and the 30-Hour Method for Learning a New Skill (2018)

#59
post #31

The sad thing is that the way the software industry is structured, it creates environments where juniors are doing the deep work and people with more experience are doing shallow logistical work. We have it totally backwards.

deep work != skilled work

Experienced software engineers are skilled at creating and maintaining systems, not writing code. That skill is way more valuable than sitting in a quiet dark place to sling code.

Re: Deep Work and the 30-Hour Method for Learning a New Skill (2018)

#60
post #39

How do you balance the want/willingness to do deep work with the external pressures of the tech world that result in new fires emerging constantly?

I switched roles in my company after being put in a role that was more firefighter than thinker. Some people like that work. I didn’t
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