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How I (almost) got an internship at Google

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Re: How I (almost) got an internship at Google

#51
I expected better from a company like Google. Asking candidates for pre-canned code snippets to cutesy little CS problems on the whiteboard is miserable and the outcome depends too much on what the candidate studied in the last few weeks before the interview. It actually tells you very little about the kind of programmer a person is and the interview itself can get quite horrible on a personal level very fast.

A while ago, I used to conduct job interviews like this. Sort this, insert that, search for the other. I still feel sorry for some of the candidates I did this to. That process was the largest single mistake I made when hiring people. I should instead have asked for the code of some projects they had been working on recently and maybe discussed a few more creative things with them.

In fact, if I could ask a candidate just one question, it would be "what projects are you working on in your spare time?"

Re: How I (almost) got an internship at Google

#52
post #28

I hate little programming puzzles that you have code by hand or little word problems, or trick questions that you have to think "out of the box". In many years of programming I don't remember having to write a binary search in C, by hand, in a text document, without being able to compile and test. Or having to dictate a Python program over the phone to someone. I certainly do not remember ever having to solve stuff l…

So, to be fair to Google, I was not once asked anything like the train question nor was I asked to write a binary search in C then to read it out over the phone. I did implement a few things in Google docs, which is kind of ugly, but it wasn't anything ridiculous, and most of the functions were fairly short (20-30 lines).

They did, however, ask a whole bunch of conceptual questions, but I don't think this is all that surprising.

Re: How I (almost) got an internship at Google

#53

My story: After my technical phone interviews, I got "accepted" as an intern, meaning I was in the Intern Pool of Rot, where I waded and waited for a team to fish me out. I waded and waded for a couple of months, hoping for a kind suitor. The HR woman always told me that she was "optimistic" about my prospects, so I rejected offers from other companies. Then a really cool opportunity came, and I accepted that offer b…

I think you'd have to try pretty hard to consciously design a worse intern recruitment process than this.

Getting them to write code is actually pretty good.

As for binary search, I wouldn't necessarily be able to bang it out in two hours in C, but I'd easily be able to bang it out in that time for any language I use regularly. And with sufficient testing I'd take a good stab at converting to C.

Though I agree sometimes it can be a coin toss. Once I was asked to write some code that would take dates as inputs and do something with them, it was supposed to take two hours and run on a bunch of test cases they gave you. I spent much more than two hours on it, nailed all the edge cases and boundary conditions that I could think of (basically nuked it from orbit) and turned in something which ran on their test cases and also a much longer list of much more challenging test cases. I got that job.

I missed one where they wanted something written by TDD. Unfortunately, I only know how to design something that works, I don't know how to fake a bad design that organically grows into a workable design. As above I nuked all the boundary conditions I could think of, but didn't get that job.

(Probably wouldn't have been happy there, my experience is that people who do TDD or automated unit testing have way too much faith in those forms of testing, and they neglect other forms of testing, so their actual net amount of testing is well below my standards. Things like: every single programmer I've ever worked with who claims that automated testing is sufficient has always produced code that when they claim they've finished the task it fails the eyeball test. E.g. you run their code and within 10-30 seconds of looking at the result you can spot something wrong with it.)

Re: How I (almost) got an internship at Google

#54
post #13

I wouldn't bother applying. Why the hell would you want to work a company that runs you through the gauntlet like this, only to give you the chance that maybe you'll get hired? I mean, this is obviously a really skilled guy who has lots of prospects. Why are Google so popular anyway? I genuinely don't get it and would love to know from someone who has specific knowledge. Do they pay better than everyone else? Work on…

Why the hell would you want to work a company that runs you through the gauntlet like this, only to give you the chance that maybe you'll get hired? I mean, this is obviously a really skilled guy who has lots of prospects.

Because at this point in your career, you have no degree, no experience, and no income? He's a sophomore in college, not someone with 30 years of industry experience.

In my experience, though, I would make someone with 30 years of industry experience answer the same questions. Because I've asked people like that those questions and they have absolutely no fucking idea. The number of people that can start with a blank file and start writing a computer program is probably somewhere around 5% of programmers.

Re: How I (almost) got an internship at Google

#55
post #36

My story: After my technical phone interviews, I got "accepted" as an intern, meaning I was in the Intern Pool of Rot, where I waded and waited for a team to fish me out. I waded and waded for a couple of months, hoping for a kind suitor. The HR woman always told me that she was "optimistic" about my prospects, so I rejected offers from other companies. Then a really cool opportunity came, and I accepted that offer b…

Same here. Twice in a row. First time, I was told a manager would call me to explain me which team I was being matched with. I received the call to tell me I had an offer... two days after the deadline set by the University. And it is not like this deadline is unknown to employers. Second time, again, I received an offer. This time, I had to call, one week before the deadline, after two weeks of hearing nothing from…

Weird story here. MS, Qualcomm, Intel etc. everyone shows up really early @ our school. Google comes 2 months later after the offer deadlines have passed. What gives ? I couldn't even interview because I had to accept another offer.

Compared to MS, Qualcomm, AMZN (I'm headed to MS) Google's process is pretty weird.

Re: How I (almost) got an internship at Google

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. The next Bill Gates isn't hoping to get noticed by some company. He's out making something and/or hustling for deals like the actual Bill Gates did. The next Bill Gates is most definitely NOT languishing unnoticed in some intern pool waiting to be discovered like some Hollywood wannabe starlet.

The Woz worked at HP where he was well liked but hardly seen at CTO material...

Even today Woz is not regarded as CTO material for a large company.

Mad scientist with lots of cool toys? Definitely.

Stick him in a suit and make him give presentations to the board? Definitely not.

Woz should be the guy in the basement in the lab coat who occasionally makes the lights in the building flicker with some bitchin' tesla coils... the guy that the CTO goes to in order to find out what is going to be important in tech trends, and who occasionally coughs up a wonderful invention that revolutionises everyone's life.

I think it is important to note that Woz is still listed as an Apple employee as an engineer

Re: How I (almost) got an internship at Google

#57
post #51

I expected better from a company like Google. Asking candidates for pre-canned code snippets to cutesy little CS problems on the whiteboard is miserable and the outcome depends too much on what the candidate studied in the last few weeks before the interview. It actually tells you very little about the kind of programmer a person is and the interview itself can get quite horrible on a personal level very fast. A whil…

If someone isn't working on something in their spare time, it's a big red flag to me. You need to have the hunger. I'm more turned on by what you have in your github account than whether or not you can do a binary search in your choice of languages.

Re: How I (almost) got an internship at Google

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not integer overflow that makes the problem difficult. It's off-by-one errors in the predicates (< vs. <=) and indexing operations (n/2 vs (n+1)/2).

@haberman, I've edited my initial post. Not arguing with you as that gets many good people during interviews. But I'm going to provide some anecdotal evidence to the contrary ... In binary search this problem comes from the length of an array, which is either odd or even, and then you're doing a division by 2, which should trigger alarms in your head all over. And just as when you were taught in your first CS class (…

Thanks for the clarification on your post. I agree with the whole statistics being thrown around being a bit ridiculous.

Re: How I (almost) got an internship at Google

#59
post #5

Google's loss is some other company's gain. Apply to places like Facebook or Microsoft or Amazon instead. Or in your case The New York Times. Personally I was in between jobs recently, so I sent Google my resume using their online application site. After about a month, Google still didn't get back to me -- meanwhile I managed to interview at 6 different places (all the way) and found a new job. "I heard nothing for a…

Yes, I just looked at the form again (the link still works) and it asks: University, Major, GPA, strongest programming language, second programming language, and preferences for location, and then a five-option part where you rate yourself out of: Not my thing (none) Can make do (fair) Comfortable (good) Comes easily (better) World Class (best)

On the following: 1) Applications and Services: this is Google's term for the software that is directly visible to end users. People who focus on applications and services typically work on improving our capabilities in a variety of areas that span the range from new features to increasing performance and efficiency at Google scale. They will be tasked with devising and building new approaches to Google's problems, and exploring their effectiveness.

2) Systems: People who have a systems focus are oriented towards behind-the-scenes software and systems, often building them from underlying components and services. Systems work spans from platforms (hardware, OS, networking) to infrastructure (shared services such as storage, cluster management) and everything in between.

3) Sys-admin: Our system administrators keep all of Google's systems running, and help deploy new ones. They deal with issues involving single machines to those involving huge numbers. They work with native Linux environments, and Google extensions and services.

4) Verification and Test: Our test teams helps make our systems resilient and reliable - we put a lot of effort into this. Building world class applications at world class scales doesn’t happen by accident. It takes insight, innovation, and precision to verify our systems perform as expected.

Re: How I (almost) got an internship at Google

#60
post #13

I wouldn't bother applying. Why the hell would you want to work a company that runs you through the gauntlet like this, only to give you the chance that maybe you'll get hired? I mean, this is obviously a really skilled guy who has lots of prospects. Why are Google so popular anyway? I genuinely don't get it and would love to know from someone who has specific knowledge. Do they pay better than everyone else? Work on…

Why the hell would you want to work a company that runs you through the gauntlet like this, only to give you the chance that maybe you'll get hired? I mean, this is obviously a really skilled guy who has lots of prospects. Because at this point in your career, you have no degree, no experience, and no income? He's a sophomore in college, not someone with 30 years of industry experience. In my experience, though, I wo…

> The number of people that can start with a blank file and start writing a computer program is probably somewhere around 5% of programmers.

What?! There's no way this is true... is there?

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