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Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

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Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#51

Post by itronitron »

russholmes wrote: post #47
krastanov wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feynman, like everyone, has his virtues and vices, but humility is definitely not among his strong points. The majority of the stories he tells about himself are anecdotes in which he is the smart person in the room making (maybe lighthearted and friendly) fun of others with a cheaply superficial pretence of humility.

Quite. Much of the cult status of Feynman was created by the man himself. He had several books written espousing his genius. As for his charm - salesmen are charming, psychopaths are charming. Charm is a 5 letter word for manipulative, as many of his colleagues wives discovered.

The book 'Genius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman' by James Gleick is very balanced. Anyone that has read Surely You're Joking should also read Genius before they start their career.

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#52

Post by foldr »

pengaru wrote: post #12
Taek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ego is important because it allows you to seriously attempt problems that many people would consider beyond them. If you genuinely believe that you can achieve something, you might be willing to sink many months of nonstop work into it despite zero tangible progress. Someone without that ego may not have the tolerance to last that long without progress while still believing it's a good use of time.

> Ego is important because it allows you to seriously attempt problems that many people would consider beyond them. This implies that a lack of ego will prevent you from attempting the same thing. One doesn't need ego to have a healthy awareness of how significant factors like self-discipline, timing, opportunity, privilege, access to resources, and myriad others can be when it comes to success.

Ego probably helps in cases where the investment of time and effort is irrational. Of course, for most people, that's not really 'helping' at all, since they end up investing too much time and effort in hopeless projects. But I guess a few egotistical people luck out and succeed at something which they had very little chance of succeeding at.

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#53

Post by fsloth »

amelius wrote: post #46
tropdrop wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too few engineers eschew ego - this is Feynman's point. Most people are not Feynman. Most engineers today think they have the capability of being Feynman one day - of course, statistics dictates that most will not be. This is why Feynman's advice is powerful - The worthwhile problems are the ones you can really solve or help solve, the ones you can really contribute something to. Feynman here is instructing someone w…

> Most people are not Feynman. Most engineers today think they have the capability of being Feynman one day - of course, statistics dictates that most will not be. But Feynman, at least in his written works, was more a reverse engineer than an actual engineer.

Feynman had a key role in engineering the computations of Manhattan Project. I have no idea what could be more like engineering than this. "With Stanley Frankel and Nicholas Metropolis, he assisted in establishing a system for using IBM punched cards for computation."

But, on the other hand, physics could be described as a way to reverse engineer nature.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman#Manhattan_Proj...

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#54

Post by CPLX »

russholmes wrote: post #47
krastanov wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feynman, like everyone, has his virtues and vices, but humility is definitely not among his strong points. The majority of the stories he tells about himself are anecdotes in which he is the smart person in the room making (maybe lighthearted and friendly) fun of others with a cheaply superficial pretence of humility.

Quite. Much of the cult status of Feynman was created by the man himself. He had several books written espousing his genius. As for his charm - salesmen are charming, psychopaths are charming. Charm is a 5 letter word for manipulative, as many of his colleagues wives discovered.

Charming people are charming.

The word is just a shorthand for people who are able to express themselves in a way that puts other people at ease and engenders a positive emotional state.

It’s pretty much an unmitigated positive trait. Like any positive trait it can be paired with all sorts of other characteristics positive or negative.

But there’s really just nothing wrong with being charming, and no moral authority that derives from not being so.

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#55

Post by ClumsyPilot »

Angostura wrote: post #42
erulabs wrote: post #2

Great read. I've always loved Feynman - but the word "ego" might apply. "I was working on problems close to the gods", and his list of solved (and to be fair, unsolved) investigations remind me of his "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman". Clearly the most brilliant man, and also clearly with a healthy regard for himself. One has to look out at the world and, taking in the successful and unsuccessful, conclude that som…

You filleted the quote. He said. > You met me at the peak of my career when I seemed to you to be concerned with problems close to the gods. This is not ego

Indeed - "seemed to you". Most the discussion is a bit silly.

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#56

Post by atq2119 »

theonemind wrote: post #24
erulabs wrote: post #2

Great read. I've always loved Feynman - but the word "ego" might apply. "I was working on problems close to the gods", and his list of solved (and to be fair, unsolved) investigations remind me of his "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman". Clearly the most brilliant man, and also clearly with a healthy regard for himself. One has to look out at the world and, taking in the successful and unsuccessful, conclude that som…

> Too many engineers eschew ego I'd like to work wherever you do. ;x

Maybe you just don't notice the ones who eschew ego? After all, that's precisely the conundrum here.

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#57

Post by atq2119 »

foldr wrote: post #52
pengaru wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ego is important because it allows you to seriously attempt problems that many people would consider beyond them. This implies that a lack of ego will prevent you from attempting the same thing. One doesn't need ego to have a healthy awareness of how significant factors like self-discipline, timing, opportunity, privilege, access to resources, and myriad others can be when it comes to success.

Ego probably helps in cases where the investment of time and effort is irrational. Of course, for most people, that's not really 'helping' at all, since they end up investing too much time and effort in hopeless projects. But I guess a few egotistical people luck out and succeed at something which they had very little chance of succeeding at.

This is the definition of start-up culture :)

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#58

Post by melling »

erulabs wrote: post #2

Great read. I've always loved Feynman - but the word "ego" might apply. "I was working on problems close to the gods", and his list of solved (and to be fair, unsolved) investigations remind me of his "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman". Clearly the most brilliant man, and also clearly with a healthy regard for himself. One has to look out at the world and, taking in the successful and unsuccessful, conclude that som…

"I was working on problems close to the gods"

He’s saying that he’s working on the important stuff, figuring out how the universe works.

I imagine he was simply trying to be poetic.

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#59

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

tropdrop wrote: post #36
erulabs wrote: post #2

Great read. I've always loved Feynman - but the word "ego" might apply. "I was working on problems close to the gods", and his list of solved (and to be fair, unsolved) investigations remind me of his "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman". Clearly the most brilliant man, and also clearly with a healthy regard for himself. One has to look out at the world and, taking in the successful and unsuccessful, conclude that som…

Too few engineers eschew ego - this is Feynman's point. Most people are not Feynman. Most engineers today think they have the capability of being Feynman one day - of course, statistics dictates that most will not be. This is why Feynman's advice is powerful - The worthwhile problems are the ones you can really solve or help solve, the ones you can really contribute something to. Feynman here is instructing someone w…

Problems can be quite humbling.

Taking on big stuff isn't necessarily a "big ego" thing, but getting upset that we didn't solve the problem might be.

In my experience, big problems get solved by teams. It's important to be a good team member, even if we are "close to the gods." From what I understand, Feynman seemed to work well in teams, but I never worked with him, so I don't know.

False humility isn't helpful either.

I have worked with, and known, many truly brilliant folks. Some were unbearable, and getting on their team meant you drew the short straw.

Others were so self-effacing that it was actually embarrassing. It was difficult to be on a team with them, as we often accidentally treated them disrespectfully, or ignored their input.

I think it was Mandela that said: "You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn't serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you."

Re: Do not remain nameless to yourself (1966)

#60

Post by elygre »

aazaa wrote: post #9

> ... Feynman replied with an enquiry about Mano’s current job, to which Mano responded that he was “studying the Coherence theory with some applications to the propagation of electromagnetic waves through turbulent atmosphere […] a humble and down-to-earth type of problem.” Feynman responded with this letter. I must be missing something. Feynman's letter is full of good advice about the crucial importance of choosin…

Yes, this! Saying that your work is “Humble and down to earth” doesn’t necessarily days that it’s beyond yourself.

Haven’t we all been told that it’s good to be humble? To me, the reply goes way beyond what this statement warrants.

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