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California sues Cisco alleging discrimination based on India’s caste system

latimes.com

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Re: California sues Cisco alleging discrimination based on India’s caste system

#51

Post by mahaganapati »

rutherblood wrote: post #24
mahaganapati wrote: post #9

As a Hindu I'd like to take the opportunity to share that the implementation of the caste system is not based on what it really means to be Hindu. The Vedas state that one's caste is fluid (not based on lineage) and can change in one's lifetime, and that further a person of the worker class is not lesser than someone of the priest caste, they both perform dharma necessary for the community.

Not an expert on the Vedas thus not sure if any value judgement is made regarding the varnas in it or not but I am definitely SURE it nowhere says that all "varnas" are equal and that mobility between varnas is possible or based on one's "merit". the varna division just by articulation implies a hierarchy. Who wouldn't see the priestly class, the keepers of knowledge, as superior than the sewage workers? Saying that…

How are you definitely sure of this while simultaneously claiming you don't know very much about the Varna system as the Vedas outline it?

You're also missing my point - of course people have abused the Varna system, but that's not how it has been described that it should be so.

Re: California sues Cisco alleging discrimination based on India’s caste system

#52

Post by mahaganapati »

tesseracted wrote: post #20
mahaganapati wrote: post #9

As a Hindu I'd like to take the opportunity to share that the implementation of the caste system is not based on what it really means to be Hindu. The Vedas state that one's caste is fluid (not based on lineage) and can change in one's lifetime, and that further a person of the worker class is not lesser than someone of the priest caste, they both perform dharma necessary for the community.

I'm also Hindu. It's quite obvious that caste and lineage are immanent within much of our cultural patrimony. I don't mean to get into an ideological debate but there is no point to this pretense.

Sorry, to which pretense?

Re: California sues Cisco alleging discrimination based on India’s caste system

#53

Post by mahaganapati »

dis-sys wrote: post #11
mahaganapati wrote: post #9

As a Hindu I'd like to take the opportunity to share that the implementation of the caste system is not based on what it really means to be Hindu. The Vedas state that one's caste is fluid (not based on lineage) and can change in one's lifetime, and that further a person of the worker class is not lesser than someone of the priest caste, they both perform dharma necessary for the community.

are you defending the caste system?

No, the other reply has it right - I'm just pointing out that what we see of as the caste system is not what is originally intended. It should not be about inequality

Re: California sues Cisco alleging discrimination based on India’s caste system

#54

Post by mahaganapati »

rutherblood wrote: post #24
mahaganapati wrote: post #9

As a Hindu I'd like to take the opportunity to share that the implementation of the caste system is not based on what it really means to be Hindu. The Vedas state that one's caste is fluid (not based on lineage) and can change in one's lifetime, and that further a person of the worker class is not lesser than someone of the priest caste, they both perform dharma necessary for the community.

Not an expert on the Vedas thus not sure if any value judgement is made regarding the varnas in it or not but I am definitely SURE it nowhere says that all "varnas" are equal and that mobility between varnas is possible or based on one's "merit". the varna division just by articulation implies a hierarchy. Who wouldn't see the priestly class, the keepers of knowledge, as superior than the sewage workers? Saying that…

This is from "Living with Siva":

> The original caste system had these four divisions. The divisions were all based on the ability of the individual to manage his body, his mind and his emotions properly. If he stopped fulfilling the dharma of his caste, society would recognize that he had moved from one caste and was now in another. The original caste system was based on self-discipline through education and through personal sadhana. The original caste system was based on the unfoldment of the consciousness within each individual through the fourteen chakras.

> People everywhere naturally divide themselves up into castes. We have the workers. You go to work, you work under somebody else--that happens all over the world--that's the shudra caste. We have the merchants, who are self-motivated. That's the vaishya caste. We have the politicians and the lawmakers and the law-enforcement people. That's the kshatriya caste. And then you have the priests, the ministers, the missionaries. That's the brahmin caste. Every society has these four castes working within it in one way or another. In today's world, if one is not fulfilling the dharma of his born caste, then he changes castes. For instance, if a brahmin husband and wife are working eight to fifteen hours a day in a hospital under others, they are no longer of the brahmin caste, because they are not performing the duties of the dharma of that caste. They are workers, in the shudra caste.

Re: California sues Cisco alleging discrimination based on India’s caste system

#55

Post by mahaganapati »

vms20591 wrote: post #44
mahaganapati wrote: post #9

As a Hindu I'd like to take the opportunity to share that the implementation of the caste system is not based on what it really means to be Hindu. The Vedas state that one's caste is fluid (not based on lineage) and can change in one's lifetime, and that further a person of the worker class is not lesser than someone of the priest caste, they both perform dharma necessary for the community.

People should stop defending the caste system. I've seen people explain it on FB like how it was misconstrued or what we see today came from the British. Call it out for what it is, even if it was in the Vedas, literature or God said it personally. We should change our beliefs as we mature, take what's right or question what's not. It was never about a person's role, it was a tool of oppression by a group that wanted…

> We can see around us the deterioration of the system which has been abused beyond the point of recognition. Members of the brahmin caste are now beating their children, abusing their wives. Members of the kshatriya caste disrespect the laws of the land. Members of the business caste are deceptive and dishonest. All are confused, living in anger and in jealousy. No wonder their families break apart and their businesses fail. In the eyes of the Gods, most of those who adhere to the caste system that exists today are low caste. This is because they live in lower consciousness. They look at the world through the windows of the chakras below the muladhara. These undeveloped humans are struggling through the lower chakras, trying to get out of the dark worlds of the mind. Let us not be deluded about what the sapta rishis had in mind when they casted humans according to the soul's unfoldment in one or more of the fourteen chakras. We should totally ignore the Hindu caste system as lived in India today and, through example, show a better and more wholesome path for modern society.

From "Living with Siva"

Re: California sues Cisco alleging discrimination based on India’s caste system

#56

Post by mahaganapati »

pankajdoharey wrote: post #47
mahaganapati wrote: post #9

As a Hindu I'd like to take the opportunity to share that the implementation of the caste system is not based on what it really means to be Hindu. The Vedas state that one's caste is fluid (not based on lineage) and can change in one's lifetime, and that further a person of the worker class is not lesser than someone of the priest caste, they both perform dharma necessary for the community.

The word for caste in sanskrit is Varna, which literally means 'Colour', it is a colour based racial system. Otherwise I dont see what purpose does it serve other than classifying people like a canines.

It's to help society be more organized so that we can collectively work together better.

> The original caste system had these four divisions. The divisions were all based on the ability of the individual to manage his body, his mind and his emotions properly. If he stopped fulfilling the dharma of his caste, society would recognize that he had moved from one caste and was now in another. The original caste system was based on self-discipline through education and through personal sadhana. The original caste system was based on the unfoldment of the consciousness within each individual through the fourteen chakras.

> People everywhere naturally divide themselves up into castes. We have the workers. You go to work, you work under somebody else--that happens all over the world--that's the shudra caste. We have the merchants, who are self-motivated. That's the vaishya caste. We have the politicians and the lawmakers and the law-enforcement people. That's the kshatriya caste. And then you have the priests, the ministers, the missionaries. That's the brahmin caste. Every society has these four castes working within it in one way or another. In today's world, if one is not fulfilling the dharma of his born caste, then he changes castes. For instance, if a brahmin husband and wife are working eight to fifteen hours a day in a hospital under others, they are no longer of the brahmin caste, because they are not performing the duties of the dharma of that caste. They are workers, in the shudra caste.

From "Living with Siva"

Re: California sues Cisco alleging discrimination based on India’s caste system

#57

Post by yedava »

tesseracted wrote: post #27

"The suit alleges that Iyer told other workers the employee was Dalit and had gained entry into the prestigious Indian Institute of Technology through affirmative action." Indian law explicitly requires a much lower standard of admission for the lower castes. Is it illegal to take consideration of this fact?

Yes, it is discrimination as the premise is that "merit" is inborn and fixed. So the fact that someone came in through affirmative action is trotted out as incontrovertible evidence that they are of inferior birth aka an inferior caste.

Re: California sues Cisco alleging discrimination based on India’s caste system

#58

Post by pankajdoharey »

mahaganapati wrote: post #56
pankajdoharey wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word for caste in sanskrit is Varna, which literally means 'Colour', it is a colour based racial system. Otherwise I dont see what purpose does it serve other than classifying people like a canines.

It's to help society be more organized so that we can collectively work together better. > The original caste system had these four divisions. The divisions were all based on the ability of the individual to manage his body, his mind and his emotions properly. If he stopped fulfilling the dharma of his caste, society would recognize that he had moved from one caste and was now in another. The original caste system wa…

I guess it was working very efficiently at dividing the society which made it very easy for outside forces to conquer India multiple times. India has seen so many waves of invasion where Indians are fighting other Indians.

Re: California sues Cisco alleging discrimination based on India’s caste system

#60

Post by dsr_ »

danans wrote: post #36
dsr_ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the equivalent of hiring white supremacists and letting them make employment decisions.

Kind of, except with caste the "racial" categories have repeatedly both smoothed out and discretized over the millenia, though always with a with a hierarchy. It's a far more complicated system of discrimination and social ordering than the traditional black/white dichotomy of American discrimination.

Sophistication doesn't make racism better.
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