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Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

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Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#51

The main problem I see in PWAs these days is that they cannot permanently store data on the device. As soon as the user deletes their "browser data", all the data of the PWAs on the device is lost too. If PWAs would get their own permanent storage like other apps, it would be a huge step forward.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#52
post #43

Nice, I like the way Microsoft chose to ignore the bad blood with Google regarding its apps for Windows Phone and has embraced Android. PWA collaboration seems to be a step in the right direction, especially since Edge is using chromium and Microsoft seems to be building great PWA apps[1]. Although I'm not entirely sure about Google's end game with PWA[2], I hope these kind of collaboration motivates industries to bu…

I agree. Apple is stifling innovation by not supporting certain APIs. They need to stop doing this, or they will hurt themselves in the long run. As it is, most people use Safari on iOS because they are forced to - all other browsers on iOS are forced to use WKWebView, which basically means they are wrappers around Safari's view. To this day, I can't understand why their users stand for this. In this regard, Apple re…

I wish that Apple had better support for PWAs and allowed alternative rendering engines. The issue is that they are the only major player in mobile that cares about user privacy, and this allows them to maintain their monopoly for many users.

If the option is Android + first-class support for PWAs vs. Apple with limited support for PWAs, I’ll go for the latter every time.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#53
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is like a team at Microsoft using Gmail as their email provider.

What is the name of that blogging software Microsoft is providing in competition with Medium?

Microsoft uses a .NET static site generator for company blogs similar to Hugo.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#54
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to customize it a bit more to make it clear this is an offical blog. For a few seconds when reading this on mobile I was super confused if this was official or just someone outside MS writing about it.

Thanks for this feedback. We're thinking about hosting a blogging platform directly under pwabuilder.com. We've got a small team that was mainly focused on writing new features & code but we definitely need to better address our blogging approach.

Might I suggest looking into Hugo.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#55
post #43

Nice, I like the way Microsoft chose to ignore the bad blood with Google regarding its apps for Windows Phone and has embraced Android. PWA collaboration seems to be a step in the right direction, especially since Edge is using chromium and Microsoft seems to be building great PWA apps[1]. Although I'm not entirely sure about Google's end game with PWA[2], I hope these kind of collaboration motivates industries to bu…

I agree. Apple is stifling innovation by not supporting certain APIs. They need to stop doing this, or they will hurt themselves in the long run. As it is, most people use Safari on iOS because they are forced to - all other browsers on iOS are forced to use WKWebView, which basically means they are wrappers around Safari's view. To this day, I can't understand why their users stand for this. In this regard, Apple re…

99.9% of users don’t even know what a browser engine is. Why would they care that they’re using WebKit instead of gecko or chromium? What they want is their bookmarks and such to sync between browsers across devices, and Apple lets that work just fine.

As an iPhone user I actually like that all phones use the same engine. It prevents the “this website is better viewed in ” pop up from affecting mobile users (and in particular it forces google to support a browser other than chrome). In other words, the engine monoculture means that making a site work for any iOS users means it will work for every iOS user, which I as a user really appreciate.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#56
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Apple is stifling innovation by not supporting certain APIs. They need to stop doing this, or they will hurt themselves in the long run. As it is, most people use Safari on iOS because they are forced to - all other browsers on iOS are forced to use WKWebView, which basically means they are wrappers around Safari's view. To this day, I can't understand why their users stand for this. In this regard, Apple re…

I wish that Apple had better support for PWAs and allowed alternative rendering engines. The issue is that they are the only major player in mobile that cares about user privacy, and this allows them to maintain their monopoly for many users. If the option is Android + first-class support for PWAs vs. Apple with limited support for PWAs, I’ll go for the latter every time.

The caring for privacy is only lip service. Consider that on iOS, you cannot get your location without also sending that location to Apple. You cannot install an app without telling Apple what you installed. You cannot install your own app on your device in a usable manner without giving banking details to Apple. You cannot subscribe to a service that has an associated app from that app without telling Apple that you've subscribed to it. To show how much it really cares, Apple moved Chinese users' data to allow the CCP unfettered access.

Facebook also says it cares about privacy, and I consider both claims to be equally believable.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#58

The main problem I see in PWAs these days is that they cannot permanently store data on the device. As soon as the user deletes their "browser data", all the data of the PWAs on the device is lost too. If PWAs would get their own permanent storage like other apps, it would be a huge step forward.

For the PWAs I'd like to deploy, all I really need is 256 bits of entropy to persist on each client. I am entirely done with the ideology where I offload arbitrary storage and compute concerns to client devices. Keeping it all on the server is so much better in almost every way.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#59
post #43

Nice, I like the way Microsoft chose to ignore the bad blood with Google regarding its apps for Windows Phone and has embraced Android. PWA collaboration seems to be a step in the right direction, especially since Edge is using chromium and Microsoft seems to be building great PWA apps[1]. Although I'm not entirely sure about Google's end game with PWA[2], I hope these kind of collaboration motivates industries to bu…

I agree. Apple is stifling innovation by not supporting certain APIs. They need to stop doing this, or they will hurt themselves in the long run. As it is, most people use Safari on iOS because they are forced to - all other browsers on iOS are forced to use WKWebView, which basically means they are wrappers around Safari's view. To this day, I can't understand why their users stand for this. In this regard, Apple re…

In this regard, Apple reminds me of a cult leader brainwashing their followers into believing the cult's way is the best way. Makes me a little sick actually.

Are you sure you aren’t the one being brainwashed?

Why should anyone trust Google, since they make virtually all of their revenue from ad tech, which means tracking users across the web, even when they don't want to be. Advertisers are Google's customers, not the users of their browsers or operating systems.

And since Apple makes virtually all of their revenue from selling devices and services, who's more credible on the issue of privacy?

If we are to believe Apple cares about its users, then it makes perfect sense why they don't allow slower, less power efficient, less secure and less private web engines available on iOS.

"But shouldn't this be up to the user?" some will say ask. Yes, but to a point. There are already so many ways on the web to shoot yourself in the foot. Apple is making it clear that if you want a platform where there are no safeguards, then this isn't the platform for you.

There are certainly a tiny, vocal minority of iOS users who complain a lot about wanting the ability to shoot themselves in the foot if they so choose. But Apple knows those aren't their core users and their revenue show that.

They need to stop doing this, or they will hurt themselves in the long run.

People have been saying this for many years and now they're valued at over $1.5 trillion during an economic collapse and global pandemic. Please tell me when the lack of web APIs that would make it easier for their users to be tracked on the web is going to have any material effect on them.

Re: Microsoft and Google collaborate to make PWAs better

#60

I have a feeling that Microsoft is going to launch an "Edgebook" competitor to Chromebook in the the future using Windows 10X. This obviously is good for the ecosystem all around, for tablets, phones, desktop, etc.

Obviously good to have competition for Chrombebooks.

Now imagine how good it would be if there were competition on the desktop market.

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