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H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

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Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#51

Post by woobar »

enraged_camel wrote: post #39
vikramkr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know how many have h1bs, but not how many of them are actually in the US. Which is just amazing. We need to bend over and let them take our privacy away so they can fight the terrorists apparently, but the same government doesnt even keep track of how many h1b holders are in the country? If the data of who every citizen is calling on their phones is so important for national security- how is it not worth the gov…

When was the last time you traveled outside the USA? Did you notice how Customs and Border Patrol did not check and stamp your passport, like they do for incoming travelers? Therefore, since there is no way to detect when an H1B worker leaves the country, there is no easy way to estimate the number of H1Bs currently in the country.

Common carriers used to collect paper I-94 forms when visitors were checking in for their return flights. Now they transmit this information to CBP electronically.

This site will let you search your own travel history with both arrival and departure dates - https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/#/history-search

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#52

Post by moultano »

monoideism wrote: post #35
arcticbull wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If only there were a word for the importation of minority labor and locking them into employment with their sponsor, effectively reducing their negotiating power for salary to zero... It really doesn't do that. To be fair, H-1Bs are supposed to be in-demand specialty workers, to meet the spirit of the program. That means they have, by definition, negotiating power. I've spent a lot of time in H-1 status and I have…

Economists have researched that data, and consistently confirmed what the GP asserted: "Research by Daniel Costa, of the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute, and Howard University political science professor Ron Hira, found that 60% of H-1B workers receive lower-than-average wages for their job and region. Google, Facebook and Apple “take advantage of program rules in order to legally pay many of their H-1B worker…

This paper is really shoddy work. It doesn't even account for the fact that most H1B workers are early in their career and thus more junior employees.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#53

Post by arcticbull »

monoideism wrote: post #50
arcticbull wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"60% of H-1B workers receive lower-than-average wages for their job and region." As opposed to 50% of the normal workforce which receives lower-than-average wages by definition? Feels like that number, while significant, was framed to be sensational. I'm curious how much of this is attributable to: 1. Technical skill level. Are they new grads or junior folks? Is this skew happening because the senior folks roll off o…

Actually, I think that number doesn't even really capture the problem. Because it doesn't indicate by how much those workers salary is lower than average. The studies I've seen on this suggest it's a significant gap. I'll see if I can find that study, and others. >Does this delta level off over time once foreign workers achieve a certain level of domestic experience? Does it go away once they transfer to new jobs? I'…

> Also make an O-1 type visa as an immigrant visa.

That's unnecessary, as the O-1 has the same requirements as an EB1A green card petition. The immigrant visa form of the O-1 is simply an EB1A petition. It's actually possible to self-petition EB1A. Only India and China have a backlog of EB1A petitions, and their priority dates are ~2017.

I'd love to read that study if you dig it up!

For what it's worth, I believe in wholesale immigration reform. I think the current system is byzantine and utterly ridiculous and leaves the country at a huge disadvantage compared to the rest of the world. While by no means a Trump supporter, his points-based immigration program that never materialized would be a big, big step in the right direction.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#54

Post by paxys »

vikramkr wrote: post #5
jypepin wrote: post #2

"estimate"? How can they not know exactly how many people have H1bs?

They know how many have h1bs, but not how many of them are actually in the US. Which is just amazing. We need to bend over and let them take our privacy away so they can fight the terrorists apparently, but the same government doesnt even keep track of how many h1b holders are in the country? If the data of who every citizen is calling on their phones is so important for national security- how is it not worth the gov…

They definitely have all the data they need, verifiable many times over. No one wants to do the work to talk to all the different agencies involved to compile it.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#55

Post by ideals »

baby wrote: post #30

The H-1B system is terrible. I applied twice to it while I was on an internship visa, and ended up not getting through the lottery and had to leave the US. Then had to wait a year and a half to get a greencard in order to come back.

Is it worth it?

The more I read about this the more I question if it is actually worth the trouble. However I am a US citizen, something which in these conversations make me realize how lucky (privileged) I am to not endure this

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#56

Post by fzeroracer »

monoideism wrote: post #37
sagarm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those big tech companies already have international offices. Why wouldn't they have just expanded those offices? Investing in education etc is not really the job of companies in our capitalist system. They could not capture enough of the value to justify the cost, especially given the very long lead times.p

> Those big tech companies already have international offices. Why wouldn't they have just expanded those offices? Because they still want to hire lots of Americans. They just don't want to pay them market prices. So they bring in H1-Bs to lower wages. If they hired them overseas, there wouldn't be that effect: From the article above: "Research by Daniel Costa, of the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute, and Howar…

> So they bring in H-1Bs to lower wages

Let's say that this was honestly true. H-1Bs have been around for what, 30ish years now? If we assume that the sole purpose of H-1Bs was to lower wages, then we should've seen slow wage growth or wage depression for software engineers.

But the reality seems to be the opposite which is that salary growth for H-1B positions seems to be among the highest wages in the country. It seems absurd to make that claim considering many other countries pay software engineers far less and America is considered an outlier with how much we tend to be paid.

This isn't to say that H-1Bs aren't abused because H-1Bs themselves do tend to be paid a lot less and come with a whole host of restrictions that make job seeking difficult. But overall I don't think the claim that it depresses wages necessarily holds water. If anything what would be likely is companies expanding international offices (which many already are doing) so that they can have access to the same cheap labor pool and avoid paying the absurd SV rates for Americans.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#57

Post by 29athrowaway »

russellbeattie wrote: post #26

The H-1B program definitely needs more regulation to prevent abuse by companies (especially when it comes to salary negotiations). But if anything we should increase the number - it's not like those people are just going to not work if they don't come to the U.S. They'll just work in different countries, either driving more offshoring of labor by American companies, or just competing with them directly. It's in the U…

H-1B1 is not the visa type for the best and brightest. That visa type is EB-1.

H-1B is about skills in high demand not extraordinary ability.

Many personal friends of mine are H-1B and they would not be even considered the best or brightest in their own household.

Of course, you have to be somewhat smart to meet the basic requirements: bachelor's degree or equivalent. But that does not mean you are among the best.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#58

Post by ma2rten »

jacobriis wrote: post #44
woobar wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you only count two occupations from the BLS list [1] Total of all Computer and IT jobs in 2018 was 4+ millions. [1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...

H1B petitions in computer occupations are predominantly in software development and computer programming. About 30% are for "computer systems analyst" or "computer occupations, other" but I don't really buy most of those petitions aren't actually for devs. All software developers on TN visas (NAFTA/USMCA visas) are officially "computer systems analysts" for example.

I believe that some (almost all?) are Software Engineers on TN visa are Engineers.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#59

Post by woobar »

jacobriis wrote: post #44
woobar wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you only count two occupations from the BLS list [1] Total of all Computer and IT jobs in 2018 was 4+ millions. [1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...

H1B petitions in computer occupations are predominantly in software development and computer programming. About 30% are for "computer systems analyst" or "computer occupations, other" but I don't really buy most of those petitions aren't actually for devs. All software developers on TN visas (NAFTA/USMCA visas) are officially "computer systems analysts" for example.

Not sure where are you getting 32% from. The table on p. 15 has "Systems Analysis And Programming" at 56% of all petitions. Other computer related occupations are 10.4%

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/reports-studies/Ch...

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#60

Post by derwiki »

gok wrote: post #47
russellbeattie wrote: post #26

The H-1B program definitely needs more regulation to prevent abuse by companies (especially when it comes to salary negotiations). But if anything we should increase the number - it's not like those people are just going to not work if they don't come to the U.S. They'll just work in different countries, either driving more offshoring of labor by American companies, or just competing with them directly. It's in the U…

Increase the count and also the minimum salary. It's bonkers that the $65k minimum from 1989 has never been updated, especially given which cities many H1B immigrants need to live.

Tangential anecdata, but 65k was my starting salary at IBM in San Jose in 2007 as non-H-1B
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