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ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

ice.gov

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Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#51

Post by nick_kline »

iandanforth wrote: post #14
chanmad29 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably international students will now attend in person classes and others will be fully remote. Weird to even think that such drastic changes are all happening during a pandemic.

The students may not have that choice. Professors are equally worried about their health and that of their students and are trying hard not to be in classrooms.

There's no perfect solution and many conflicting needs.

1. The health needs of students and professors, some part of them are vulnerable, plus the normal health considerations of covid-19

2. The learning needs of students, plenty may struggle to succeed in an entirely online world. It might be required by reality, but there will be new difficulties for people.

3. Financial needs of the school - they still have to pay for classrooms, office space, dorms, the campus, even if they aren't using it right then

4. Financial needs of the student - they might have financial aid from the school or other sources, how does it apply when the school is remote or unclear, what if things change, what do you pay, what does your scholarship cover?

5. And now immigration clarity. That student might need to be in the us for other reasons - if it's grad school, your relationship with your advisor used to be crucial. Now you'll never have a chance to see them in person. No one wants to be terrified of being deported for violating a rule or the govt confused about their status. The school might close down with little notice, what happens to that person who can't afford to fly back overseas?

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#53

Post by airstrike »

whoisjuan wrote: post #36

This reads like "open your campuses or go fuck yourself". International students make up 6% of all the students in the US with certain institutions probably averaging very large numbers of international students. This is the sad current state of affairs in this country. A pandemic became a political weapon.

At Northwestern's Kellogg School of Management, currently ranked the third best business school in the country, 32% of students are international.

https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/programs/full-time-mba/...

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#54

Post by cm2187 »

golem14 wrote: post #10
chanmad29 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably international students will now attend in person classes and others will be fully remote. Weird to even think that such drastic changes are all happening during a pandemic.

Agree. I wonder what is the rationale for all this. Other than plain old xenophobia. Will this reduce pandemic ? No, it will incentivize colleges to offer in-person classes promoting COVID. Will this reduce students on non-immigration visas ? Not sure it does (students might find in-person classes somewhere). Some students might just say 'fuck it' and study elsewhere. Maybe that's good for them. Will this reduce unem…

Plain old xenophobia? How about double digit unemployment rate? We can debate the means. But I can understand why Trump would want to cut down on immigration.

Now a good question is whether there will be unemployment among highly educated people with STEM degrees, who were in hot demand only a few weeks ago, and if not this is counterproductive. But every economic indicator seems to point at a major recession (beyond a technical recession during the lockdown). I would assume everyone will be impacted.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#55

Post by foogazi »

murph-almighty wrote: post #16
olliej wrote: post #7

This is intended to punish foreign students - either move to an unsafe university or get out and reset your visa. With a government that’s decided to block visa applications arbitrarily. Alternatively universities have to reopen to people so that it looks like they agree with the absurd demands of the current administration to open earlier than they should.

And this is how you piss off a bunch of 18-23 year olds who may have had foreign friends impacted by this. Maybe this gets the youth vote out?

OTOH maybe their friends couldn’t get in because the spot went to a student in a visa

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#56

Post by pdabbadabba »

purple_ferret wrote: post #49

>Nonimmigrant F-1 students attending schools operating under normal in-person classes are bound by existing federal regulations. Eligible F students may take a maximum of one class or three credit hours online. This pretty nuts. From what I understand, even schools that are allowing everyone on campus will have a majority of their classes online or have them be up to the discretion of professors. This may keep the va…

> schools that are allowing everyone on campus will have a majority of their classes online

That would make it not a "school[] operating under normal in-person classes" but rather a "school[] adopting a hybrid model." No?

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#57

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

Balgair wrote: post #33
Shank wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the sad reality that for many students, it's not possible to work unimpeded on school work at home. For many, university is the a psychological retreat from home circumstances that are distracting at best the best of times and downright abusive at the worst. It doesn't matter if your Internet is solid if you can't actually focus on the work.

Post quals grad students are going to be hard pressed to get a PCR machine, vivarium, or fluoroscope up and running in their parent's house. You know, machines vital to figuring out covid vaccines. I've no idea how most of them will get any quality lab-bench research done. It pretty much nukes them.

Campuses are going to be closed in the Fall. Nobody is going to have access to those things.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#58

Post by mynameisvlad »

dsfdsfsdfasd wrote: post #48
usaar333 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or fly out from the country with the highest number of infections Are there exemptions in place for when it is difficult to actually return to country of origin? (e.g. it remains very difficult to fly into China)

It's difficult, if not impossible, to fly to basically any country from the US. The EU is currently debating exemptions for spouses who have been separated, so I doubt they have exemptions for students. And even if the exemptions and all are sorted out, who thinks it's a great idea for a whole bunch of students to have to fly in what will now potentially be crowded planes, and then have to spend at least a couple of…

In this case, the students would be returning home, and therefore be citizens of the country they are flying to. Generally speaking (including the EU, which you mentioned), citizens are exempt from the travel bans. Even during the quarantine, there were once-a-week flights to China from the US (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/business/us-china-flights-int...)

Not saying that these changes aren't horrible, they are, but I don't think getting home is impossible. Very difficult, in most cases yes.

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#59

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #46

Look, I know HN discussions try to keep things respectful, try to prevent flamewars, etc. but I say it's damn hard not to scream out loud "Fuck our current president" with BS like this. This is quite simply racist xenophobic pandering to his "base". International students don't have any control over whether a school is open in person or online, so why punish them like this. It's just evil.

Campuses and dormitories are closed though. Where are these people supposed to live?

Re: ICE changes exemptions for foreign students taking online courses in Fall 2020

#60

Post by CerealFounder »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #46

Look, I know HN discussions try to keep things respectful, try to prevent flamewars, etc. but I say it's damn hard not to scream out loud "Fuck our current president" with BS like this. This is quite simply racist xenophobic pandering to his "base". International students don't have any control over whether a school is open in person or online, so why punish them like this. It's just evil.

Its worse, its bad business.
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