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Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

blog.anylist.com

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Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#51
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that in many cases the email address is an obfuscated one controlled by apple, so Apple really is a gatekeeper between the user and the service.

No more so than Gmail/Yahoo Mail/etc is for the average end user

Yes and it applies to them too

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#52
post #5

Buries the lede. They’ve chosen to drop support for Facebook login rather than also support Apple login. So working as intended!

I'm going to be fascinated to see what this does for conversions. My company built the Neil Young Archives, when doing so we initially launched with Social log ins and at one point Neil decided Facebook and Google were evil and wanted to remove the access. According to our logs a full 2/3s of all users were registering with a social account and we were having great success getting folks to log into a free service (We had 250k sign ups over the first weekend, we thought Auth0 might turn us off as we started on a tier capped around 40k)

We assumed this success would quickly taper off if it wasn't "one click" to sign up with your Google/Faceboook account an talked Neil off the ledge.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#53
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen an app that required a FB or Google login. It was always possible to use email+password.

Many (> 5-ish?) years ago, Spotify required Facebook login

Yep, that in specific made me hold off on deleting my Facebook for a couple of years. About 2 years ago I noticed you could just click ‘forgot password’ and unbind them.

I’ve gotten rid of Facebook, but now my account name is just a bunch of numbers.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#54

> One problem is that most Apple IDs are tied to an iCloud email address. Is that actually true? None in my household are.

It depends mostly on the demographic in my experience. For example, my parents have icloud email addresses that they occasionally email me from and never reply to for the reasons mentioned in this post.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#55

I’ve got a new sign in flow I’ll be using for all my indie apps. It solves 2 problems I have with Apple. 1) no PWA support for notifications 2) forcing stuff like this on everyone I use a telegram chat bot. After signing up via the bot that sends you a link to set your password, you then also request a short expiry sign in link everytime you wish to sign in. The chatbot doubles as a notifications channel. I’m thinkin…

Could you elaborate? Doesn’t this require users to have telegram installed?

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#56
post #45

A lot of the points they make here are real points, and I think AnyList has validity in their actions. I also think it’s not as unmanageable as it seems. Let’s analyze this quote, from the article, as it highlights what I imagine are a big crux of this issue: > with the “Hide My Email” option, your spouse or friends obviously won’t know your privaterelay.appleid.com email address, so when they enter your email addres…

I wonder if Apple would be ok with asking them to give up their email? Apple clearly likes the idea of the hide option... personally I would expect a less than positive reception from Apple. I get where both AnyList (if they asked) and Apple (if they didn't like it) would be coming from here. It does seem to be a shortcoming here where outside of a user one time sign up situation... you don't want to have to burden t…

I don't think Apple would care about asking for email for legitimate use. I thought the point of Sign in with Apple is that it decouples giving away your email from signing up. Not that it bans apps from collecting emails in any way.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that different from FB/Google's login services? The only apps that are required to support Sign in with Apple are those that also support FB/G/etc sign in, so those companies have already chosen a path...

Google provides an email address. You could replace your Google auth with password auth in an afternoon just by adding a "forgot your password" link. Facebook auth used to provide an email address, but it's been almost a decade since I last used their APIs so I don't know if that has changed. Apple's "provide an anonymous email address" inserts them between you and your customer.

When you use Apple's Sign In it flat out asks whether you want to use your real email or an anonymous one. The user is purposely says, "Hey, Apple get in the middle I don't trust these clowns."

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#58

> One problem is that most Apple IDs are tied to an iCloud email address. So most accounts created via Sign in with Apple will use an iCloud email address. But many of those iCloud email addresses are unused and unchecked, because a customer’s “real” email account is their Gmail, Yahoo, or Hotmail account. Wow, this is a really good point. I just checked and yup -- my AppleID is directly linked to my icloud email, an…

This seems strange to me. My iCloud account is my Gmail address (even though I also have an iCloud one on the account) and when I use Sign in with Apple I get an option to redirect all emails to Gmail.

But the system is indeed weird, I signed up for an account in an app with bike routes and wanted later to check it in the browser and had no idea what or how to find out what my account is or how should I sign in (could be also the app/website didn't implement this properly).

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#59
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen an app that required a FB or Google login. It was always possible to use email+password.

https://tailscale.com/ requires it, as do many other apps that explicitly "don't want to become identity providers and would rather offload that burden to someone else".

Tailscale supports other SSO providers, too. https://tailscale.com/kb/1013/sso-providers

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#60
post #5

Buries the lede. They’ve chosen to drop support for Facebook login rather than also support Apple login. So working as intended!

I'm going to be fascinated to see what this does for conversions. My company built the Neil Young Archives, when doing so we initially launched with Social log ins and at one point Neil decided Facebook and Google were evil and wanted to remove the access. According to our logs a full 2/3s of all users were registering with a social account and we were having great success getting folks to log into a free service (We…

But you didn’t try anything to confirm/infirm this hypothesis?
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