Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments • Hacker News Board

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#51

Post by raverbashing » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

danilocesar wrote: post #41

raverbashing wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brazilians can already do inter-bank money transfers using their bank accounts apps cheaply. Pix is an improvement over those systems (shorter processing times - as in seconds instead of minutes) and checks are almost nonexistent.

I wouldn't say cheaply... Unless you have a digital-only account or has a high-class account (like VanGogh,Personalitté, etc) it's cost almost 9 BRL for a inter-bank transfer.

9 BRL is what? 2 USD?

Compare with https://answers.usbank.com/answers/s/article/How-much-does-a... (spoiler alert: 10x more - for both senders and receivers)

Whatsapp transfers would be ~ 5% of the cost which would make it more expensive for anything over 200BRL

Meanwhile inside the SEPA Area (EU), National and International payments have the same cost (which is usually 0)

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#52

Post by anthony_r » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 4:15 PM UTC

plausible wrote: post #17

As a Brazilian, I'm pleased. Our central bank is going to release a platform called PIX. Financial institutions with more than 500.000 clients are required to implement it. Finally we are going to have a standard across banks, and money transfers are going to be less complex, clunky and costly. Of course, other apps have come before. We have apps like PicPay, PayPal and Nubank, just to name a few, that provide instan…

And you're 100% sure that this is not just currency controls because the Brazilian Real is getting killed? From what I can tell - Brazil is going to Argentina, quickly :(

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#53

Post by mschuster91 » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 4:17 PM UTC

sktrdie wrote: post #24

Why do services like whatsapp need support for this? We have URLs people! Here I just send an URL to my friend via whatsapp. They click on the link. The site takes care of giving user whichever payment method they desire. User pays. That's it. From a user's perspective to pay I just have to click a link. And to get paid I just send a link. How easier can it get?

Whatsapp is aiming to become an all-in-one solution. When I click on a link in Whatsapp my phone takes at least 10-20 seconds to open the page, and that could be eliminated - similar to M-Pesa in Africa...

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#54

Post by piva00 » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

comechao wrote: post #30

diegoholiveira wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIX will not be a service to end-users, it'll create a standard where any service can offer instant payments and transfers. It will increase competition in the long run because if you want to open a payments fintech, you don't need to go in every bank or other fintech to do agreements about how your app will communicate with then, you just use the PIX to communicate with everyone.

Sure, that's why I used the term "solution". I understand that PIX will be better than what we have today, but there's no reason to block other players and don't allow them to create their own payment solutions or products, based or not on PIX.

Facebook is a very unique position here, don't play it as "free market" when one player has control over more than 50% of the messaging communication going on in Brazil, Bacen is blocking the current implementation of WhatsApp Pay, doesn't mean if they integrate with PIX they won't be allowed. If they don't integrate with PIX then it's quite easy, given their position, to force users to stay only inside their platform, with PIX they are allowed to participate in the larger ecosystem, it's a better solution for all.

There is no competition when network effects take hold and create a de facto monopoly, like with messaging apps.

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#55

Post by InsomniacL » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

sktrdie wrote: post #24

Why do services like whatsapp need support for this? We have URLs people! Here I just send an URL to my friend via whatsapp. They click on the link. The site takes care of giving user whichever payment method they desire. User pays. That's it. From a user's perspective to pay I just have to click a link. And to get paid I just send a link. How easier can it get?

Whatsapp could allow plugins from banks or other payment providers using an open standard that other applications could use. Just like i can choose to open a link in Chrome or Safari or Firefox, why not open a 'payment request in ... ' I fear tech companies using their market dominance to gain a monopoly, like 'Apple Pay' with iPhone apps.

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#56

Post by worldexplorer » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

plausible wrote: post #17

As a Brazilian, I'm pleased. Our central bank is going to release a platform called PIX. Financial institutions with more than 500.000 clients are required to implement it. Finally we are going to have a standard across banks, and money transfers are going to be less complex, clunky and costly. Of course, other apps have come before. We have apps like PicPay, PayPal and Nubank, just to name a few, that provide instan…

So PIX is like UPI(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface) in India?

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#57

Post by centimeter » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #51

danilocesar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say cheaply... Unless you have a digital-only account or has a high-class account (like VanGogh,Personalitté, etc) it's cost almost 9 BRL for a inter-bank transfer.

9 BRL is what? 2 USD? Compare with https://answers.usbank.com/answers/s/article/How-much-does-a... (spoiler alert: 10x more - for both senders and receivers) Whatsapp transfers would be ~ 5% of the cost which would make it more expensive for anything over 200BRL Meanwhile inside the SEPA Area (EU), National and International payments have the same cost (which is usually 0)

In the US I pay $0 for transfers under like $2500 using various free services like Venmo or Cash App.

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#58

Post by centimeter » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

soneca wrote: post #25

centimeter wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> money transfers are going to be less complex, clunky and costly. You really think the Brazilian central bank is going to make a smooth, efficient, and cheap money transfer service? What reason do you have to expect that to work?

As a Brazilian living in the US I can tell you that the TED system is already a smooth, efficient, and cheap money transfer service compared to the solutions here in the US. So I have total confidence that they are capable of creating a better yet version of it.

What solutions have you tried in the US? Venmo and Cash App are both free and work up to like $2500, at which point you have to deal with government systems like ACH and it gets slow and expensive.

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#59

Post by baq » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

comechao wrote: post #22

plausible wrote: post #17

As a Brazilian, I'm pleased. Our central bank is going to release a platform called PIX. Financial institutions with more than 500.000 clients are required to implement it. Finally we are going to have a standard across banks, and money transfers are going to be less complex, clunky and costly. Of course, other apps have come before. We have apps like PicPay, PayPal and Nubank, just to name a few, that provide instan…

If this is about Pix, and I believe it is, Government is killing competitors. If Pix is better, people will choose Pix, if WhatsApp is better, people will use it. Let's not force people to use a solution and create a monopoly controlled by the Government, again.

government standard for electronic wire transfers beats checks (duh) or private standards designed to extract money from the market. bank implements pix, another bank implements pix, customers are happy because they can transfer money securely to each other. at least that's how this works in the EU.

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#60

Post by Mengkudulangsat » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

comechao wrote: post #22

plausible wrote: post #17

As a Brazilian, I'm pleased. Our central bank is going to release a platform called PIX. Financial institutions with more than 500.000 clients are required to implement it. Finally we are going to have a standard across banks, and money transfers are going to be less complex, clunky and costly. Of course, other apps have come before. We have apps like PicPay, PayPal and Nubank, just to name a few, that provide instan…

If this is about Pix, and I believe it is, Government is killing competitors. If Pix is better, people will choose Pix, if WhatsApp is better, people will use it. Let's not force people to use a solution and create a monopoly controlled by the Government, again.

No matter how good PIX is, as a local standard it will never be able to do what Whatsap (may) be able to do - transact with foreigners.