I think I’m done with HN • Hacker News Board

Re: I think I’m done with HN

#51

Post by dang » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 8:06 PM UTC

azhu wrote: post #9

As a younger person, I agree, it is very disappointing. I would've guessed YC more prescient than to not realize there are tectonic cultural shifts heavily worth deep discussion happening. I've noticed that sometimes, when people rise through ranks or otherwise mature in the world of business, they become disconnected from regular humanity and forget that emotions are real signals.

That might be a possible explanation, except the facts are the opposite: HN has had dozens of extensive discussions about these topics, with tens of thousands of posts. The claim that they've been suppressed or ignored is beyond wrong—they are the most discussed topics in the last month. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23624962 for an extreme list of examples.

I always ask myself how people arrive at these perceptions in the first place, and what makes them so sure that they're right that they will make rage posts about it on e.g. Twitter without even a small effort to find out the truth. Any ideas? Here are my theories: (1) we are much more likely to notice the things we dislike, and to weight them much more heavily, than the things we like or agree with—so people on all sides end up feeling like this community is against them; (2) everyone always feels like the stories they care the most about are under-represented on HN, no matter how well-represented they actually are—this is an artifact of frontpage space being so scarce.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: I think I’m done with HN

#52

Post by dang » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 8:18 PM UTC

thechosenblerd wrote: post #5

That's the unfortunate reality of the tech community and really privilege itself. It's uncomfortable to acknowledge the misfortunes of others. It's a sad norm of American culture, especially when it pertains to black people.

I agree with you about it being uncomfortable to acknowledge the misfortune of others. We could go deeply into that question. But I hope you're aware that the claims the OP made are not true at all—HN has had dozens of threads and tens of thousands of comments on the cluster of topics related to George Floyd (BLM, protests, police brutality, racism). This has been the most-discussed theme of the past month by far, supplanting coronavirus, and 10x more discussed than any of the most popular technical topics.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23624962

Re: I think I’m done with HN

#53

Post by BrandoElFollito » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 8:38 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #38

> while any mention of the fate of George Floyd and so many others who have suffered and died at the hands of police gets aggressively removed from discussion That's not even close to true—not by orders of magnitude. This seems like a classic of the notice-dislike bias ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ): that is, you've seen things that you didn't like in one discussion and weighted i…

I do not know how this is perceived in the US but for us, Europeans, BLM, main is the new master and other similar things seem to be all over the place.

Everywhere, including HN.

I do not mind, the tech scene is understandibly americanized but telling that the discussions are hidden is simply not true.

(to be clear, I am just piggy backing on your quote to not repeat it, I agree with what you say)

Re: I think I’m done with HN

#54

Post by wayneftw » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 8:45 PM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #45

wayneftw wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Tech cares too”? What does that even mean? That’s the sort of sweeping generalization about a group of people that racists make.

It means we are human beings and current events are relevant to us. We are not above it. It is not an irrelevant topic somehow beneath us. Our professions, our tendency towards rational view of the world, should not be a mechanism to deny reality and put ourselves on pedestals, to create distance with other human beings. When we dismiss a major event as not relevant to tech that is what we are doing. I see it as some…

So, you feel that every single niche forum must be discussing this or they're not being human?

What if this were a body building forum or a site where chefs and their kitchen cooks talk shop?

Would you feel the same way about the users of those sites?

I'm sure plenty of people in tech don't really give a shit as is their right.

Re: I think I’m done with HN

#55

Post by asveikau » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 8:56 PM UTC

wayneftw wrote: post #54

asveikau wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means we are human beings and current events are relevant to us. We are not above it. It is not an irrelevant topic somehow beneath us. Our professions, our tendency towards rational view of the world, should not be a mechanism to deny reality and put ourselves on pedestals, to create distance with other human beings. When we dismiss a major event as not relevant to tech that is what we are doing. I see it as some…

So, you feel that every single niche forum must be discussing this or they're not being human? What if this were a body building forum or a site where chefs and their kitchen cooks talk shop? Would you feel the same way about the users of those sites? I'm sure plenty of people in tech don't really give a shit as is their right.

> Would you feel the same way about the users of those sites?

Yes, it would not at all be unreasonable for any of those categories. If they are seeing it all over the place as we all are, having intense reactions as many people are and extend the sentiment into their niche forums that seems totally legit and reasonable.

I suppose you have a right to be a grumpy person and deny them it, but, I would say relax, give them a break, and maybe stop taking yourself so seriously.

Re: I think I’m done with HN

#56

Post by _8j50 » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 10:56 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #49

_8j50 wrote: post #18

Oh wow, this made it to the front page and it just got flagged! I was going to say how i really don't care about mainstream news topics worming their way to HN but man, this is crazy. I understand downvotes and bans but flagging this and shadowbans are hitting below the belt. Is this site for the intellectually dishonest? If not this b.s. needs to stop. How many "I quit facebook" posts make it to the front page all t…

I did pay attention, because the OP's claims are false. When people say false things about HN and try to gin up outrage with them, I unfortunately feel obliged to respond. If you haven't seen these comments, and are willing to read them, I'd be curious to hear if you feel like there's anything that remains unaddressed. I listed 52 threads but it could just as easily have been 102. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id…

I completely agree with your point about admitting mistakes. I am not invested either way on the topic. Either we have a discussiom thread informing OP, myself and others of their mistakes or we don't. That's what downvotes are for. We see clickbait topics make it to the front page all the time but the top comment calls out the article's misleading claims. I've been corrected from holding incorrect beliefs as a result of misleading articles or blog posts on HN. Voting works.

What I didn't like was the constant flagging. And censorship. It's not ok to allow a "i quit facebook" post where commenters discuss the factual nature of the authors reasoning and at the same time ban/censor an "I quit HN" post. I have no problem with downvotes but when a post gets popular enough to make it to the front page and gets removed because it contains incorrect claims the result is people like me who didn't care much about the topic before but the fact the authord HN censorship claim was validated before my eyes made me believe him. Censorhsip does not correct false claims (streissand effect).

I would like to see all popular posts and read commentors opinions so I can make up my own opinion (short of spending time researching the accuracy of every claim for every post first hand).

I hope HN will allow that but I do understand this is a private topic specific platform.

Re: I think I’m done with HN

#57

Post by Rochus » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 11:11 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #49

_8j50 wrote: post #18

Oh wow, this made it to the front page and it just got flagged! I was going to say how i really don't care about mainstream news topics worming their way to HN but man, this is crazy. I understand downvotes and bans but flagging this and shadowbans are hitting below the belt. Is this site for the intellectually dishonest? If not this b.s. needs to stop. How many "I quit facebook" posts make it to the front page all t…

I did pay attention, because the OP's claims are false. When people say false things about HN and try to gin up outrage with them, I unfortunately feel obliged to respond. If you haven't seen these comments, and are willing to read them, I'd be curious to hear if you feel like there's anything that remains unaddressed. I listed 52 threads but it could just as easily have been 102. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id…

So you don't like it when people accuse you unjustly either. I can understand that.

Re: I think I’m done with HN

#58

Post by dang » Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 11:28 PM UTC

Rochus wrote: post #57

dang wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did pay attention, because the OP's claims are false. When people say false things about HN and try to gin up outrage with them, I unfortunately feel obliged to respond. If you haven't seen these comments, and are willing to read them, I'd be curious to hear if you feel like there's anything that remains unaddressed. I listed 52 threads but it could just as easily have been 102. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id…

So you don't like it when people accuse you unjustly either. I can understand that.

It's more about people accusing HN unjustly. The structure of the forum leads people to false conclusions very easily—I wrote about this at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23308098. It's easy for people to get stuck in a negative distortion which doesn't benefit anybody.

We can look at and acknowledge the problems on HN—certainly there are many problems—and at the same time see that there is also something unusually creative and positive at its core. I think the way for this positive core to develop further is for the community to get a more accurate reflection of itself.