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My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

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Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#51

Post by bzb3 »

quxbar wrote: post #48
jeffdavis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked at the numbers in another comment[1], and it seems that for every one black person killed by police (justifiably or not), over 20 black people are murdered by other blacks. So either there's something wrong with my analysis, or the fear of police is somewhat misplaced. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579467

I think you missed the headline - the police are murdering in broad daylight without legal repercussions.

He's replying to the comment the other user posted, not the headline.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#52

Post by trowawee »

jeffdavis wrote: post #44
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

I looked at the numbers in another comment[1], and it seems that for every one black person killed by police (justifiably or not), over 20 black people are murdered by other blacks. So either there's something wrong with my analysis, or the fear of police is somewhat misplaced. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579467

Bringing up "black-on-black crime" is a common disingenuous tactic to distract from conversations about police brutality. Most violence is committed by people you're around, and in an intensely segregated country, that will usually be people that are the same race as you. It's a complete digression from the actual conversation here, which is about agents of the state, entrusted to act as enforcers of the state's monopoly on violence, abusing that trust and meting out violence to people who have done nothing wrong.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#53

Post by specialist »

jeffdavis wrote: post #44
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

I looked at the numbers in another comment[1], and it seems that for every one black person killed by police (justifiably or not), over 20 black people are murdered by other blacks. So either there's something wrong with my analysis, or the fear of police is somewhat misplaced. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579467

How does this negate pjc50's thesis?

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#54

Post by jeffbee »

danharaj wrote: post #2

The NYPD has a budget for spying on people in other countries. State power is weird.

Does it also seem weird to you that small countries have intelligence bureaus? Denmark and Finland are both less populous than New York City.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#56

Post by tejtm »

psychometry wrote: post #7

This is why we need civilian oversight of every police department. Cops are generally too corrupt and/or too incompetent to investigate their own. They've proven their inability to hold themselves accountable for their actions, so it's up to the rest of us to do it.

Four year (post high school) degree required would do wonders for the level of competency easily weeding out the common whack jobs. Will still get the high function sociopath but they will have to be more careful navigating within a majority of competent peers.

hell employers (especially state employers) require degrees and ridiculous experience levels just to wield JS on a crud app.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#57

Post by bargl »

jeffdavis wrote: post #44
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

I looked at the numbers in another comment[1], and it seems that for every one black person killed by police (justifiably or not), over 20 black people are murdered by other blacks. So either there's something wrong with my analysis, or the fear of police is somewhat misplaced. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579467

I've looked at and seen similar data. It's a problem too. However, let's put the data aside for a second and look at the perception of these scenarios.

In one example, you can fight back legally and protect yourself. You can be confident if found they'll go to jail. You can be confident that they have to hide who they are.

In another example you may not fight back legally and protect yourself. They will likely not go to jail. You know exactly who they are and they keep coming around your neighborhood.

We need systems in place to make people safe because of and from the people who police our streets.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#58

Post by treis »

trowawee wrote: post #52
jeffdavis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked at the numbers in another comment[1], and it seems that for every one black person killed by police (justifiably or not), over 20 black people are murdered by other blacks. So either there's something wrong with my analysis, or the fear of police is somewhat misplaced. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579467

Bringing up "black-on-black crime" is a common disingenuous tactic to distract from conversations about police brutality. Most violence is committed by people you're around, and in an intensely segregated country, that will usually be people that are the same race as you. It's a complete digression from the actual conversation here, which is about agents of the state, entrusted to act as enforcers of the state's mono…

>Bringing up "black-on-black crime" is a common disingenuous tactic to distract from conversations about police brutality.

It's part of the story, though. The incident in the linked article started because a group of teens jumped another and stole his phone. If that's happening 10x as often then innocent kids in that neighborhood are going to be 10x as likely to be swept up in police action.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#59

Post by dragonwriter »

pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

> Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police

They are both worried about criminals. The fact that some criminals have badges and guns and a conspiracy of accomplices in positions of power shielding them from accountability for their crimes doesn't make them any less criminals.

> Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the police" or "defund the police", because from their point of view the police are the people most likely to assault or kill them or their children on the street, more so than random criminals

That's starting in the general direction of the truth, but not correct. It's not so much that Black community members (much less BLM activists, who are more likely to have detailed statistics at hand) think police are the most likely threat, but that police as currently constituted are a threat that Black communities both pay for and get poor returns from, both because of actual abuse by police and because their actual law enforcement needs (and other needs which society has shoveled into the police portfolio) are simultaneously underserved (and not just when it comes to crimes by cops; BLM, after all, didn't start in response to police violence.)

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#60

Post by MaysonL »

jeffdavis wrote: post #44
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

I looked at the numbers in another comment[1], and it seems that for every one black person killed by police (justifiably or not), over 20 black people are murdered by other blacks. So either there's something wrong with my analysis, or the fear of police is somewhat misplaced. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579467

So, let’s look at the numbers. What’s the ratio of people to police? I would bet that it’s a lot higher than 20:1. In other words, a black person meeting a polic officer is a whole lot more likely to get killed than a black person meeting another black person. That’s why fear of police is perfectly rational for blacks.
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