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Video Games Are the Future of Education

nabeelqu.co

51–60 of 392 posts

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#51
Video games will change education in the way that books changed education (speculation I know). They're not a replacement for human discourse, for the teacher-pupil relationship, for social fitting, etc. But they make learning scalable and accessible in a way it wasn't before.

I'm most hopeful we will see this in maths. I know this has been talked about for 40 years with computers, since Papert's Mindstorms (highly recommended if you haven't read it). But the potential to teach math through immersion as you would a native language IMO = the potential to leap society forward exponentially.

Why hasn't it been built yet? Lots of comments in this thread already about the blocking incentive model and education system. 100%. I'd look instead outside the system, to something like Minecraft. Obviously, we don't want to privatize education into the hands of some monocultured tech platform. But a diversity of games that teach different things to people at different levels? That supplement social education? That are fun first? eg. Here's a basic word game I built that everyone seems to enjoy, and is also a great vocab lesson: (https://apps.apple.com/app/esoterica/id1505210583).

If we can find the right models to support such a diversity (we're certainly not there yet), I see great promise in that future.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#53
The language in this article about knowledge you "feel in your body" is only briefly mentioned is the concept of "tacit" knowledge, further developed here:

Tacit knowledge is more important than deliberate practice https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23465862

The article rightly prizes tacit knowlege, but does not lay any argument for why games would give us tacit knowledge.

Tacit knowledge is primarily gained only by experience, and I don't see how games give us that in ways that the majority of folks would can say they had unambiguously helped us in the kinds of real world tasks we care about.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#54

Look at what the “elites” do to educate their kids. Do they long to put their kids in front of a computer to play video games or do they pay top dollar for tiny teacher:student ratios at great facilities with competent teachers/leadership? I can’t imagine anyone dealing with kids learning from home this lockdown and thinking education should be more technologically driven.

Education primarily suffers from a motivation and accountability problem. Obviously, this problem can be solved by throwing money at it, but how can it done more cost efficiently so that’s available to everyone? Online education has problems right now because the teachers provide motivation via the relationship, which will always be less evocative than an in-person interaction. It’s possible that video games could provide alternate motivation solution that would be more effective for someone.

However, it’s worth recognizing that the wealthy are not necessarily optimizing educational value. A cynical way to look at it might be to say that they are really ensuring the scarcity of graduates and limiting internal competition to make their kids look better.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#55
Sometimes games teach us thing implicitly in the subtext [1], but implicit learning is probably not a good model for primary education, much in the same way that music might teach us things in it's subtext, but is not a good model for primary education of specific concepts.

[1] Naomi Clark: Why Tom Nook symbolizes village debt in 18th century Japan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgEnbXPZX4s

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#56
Perhaps, but if there is one thing we know, it's that massive online courses do not work well as we have currently tried them. Students don't come back year to year, and engagement throughout the course is very low [1]. Using a video game might help solve the engagement problem, but I would be hard pressed to think benefit of using a video game (increased engagement in the learning process) would be worth the 10-100x development cost with considerably more risk.

Where I think video games can excel is in more niche applications like Kerbal Space Program, not teaching something like European Literature.

[1] https://joseruiperez.me/papers/journals/2019_Science_MOOCPiv...

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#57

Perhaps, but if there is one thing we know, it's that massive online courses do not work well as we have currently tried them. Students don't come back year to year, and engagement throughout the course is very low [1]. Using a video game might help solve the engagement problem, but I would be hard pressed to think benefit of using a video game (increased engagement in the learning process) would be worth the 10-100x…

Video games don't mean 3d whatever, there are very low cost browser games too that sufficiently gamify learning. Sites like coursera are actually kinda terrible in terms of gamification. The best examples are sites like lichess or duolingo that have great retention.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#58

Perhaps, but if there is one thing we know, it's that massive online courses do not work well as we have currently tried them. Students don't come back year to year, and engagement throughout the course is very low [1]. Using a video game might help solve the engagement problem, but I would be hard pressed to think benefit of using a video game (increased engagement in the learning process) would be worth the 10-100x…

"but I would be hard pressed to think benefit of using a video game (increased engagement in the learning process) would be worth the 10-100x development cost with considerably more risk."

That's the problem with the MOOC industry. Those guys produced content at the production level of the average high school or college class, endless talking head video. They thought that all the advantages of scale accrued to them - they got to make cheap content and sell it in huge quantity. Didn't work.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#59
I own a educational game company.

Long story short: it doesn't sell.

At my company we identified, at least if your target is kids, two ways to sell edu games.

1. Sell them to institutions, like governments, schools, companies, whatever. Thing is, the features they look when choosing a game to buy, are ones most likely to make the game unfun, the end result is often boring stuff noone WANTS to play.

2. Sell them to the public directly, but word of mouth here is often poor, specially if your age range is narrow, for example if your target is kids between 4 and 8, the kids will play the game, love it, but parents won't tell other parents to buy it, most of their friends probably WON'T have kids the same age.

Thus if you are going for fun games, you need path 2, and to do path 2 you need a ton of exposure that is NOT word of mouth, we found out this means or you have massive marketing budget, or you have some kind of connection to media so they advertise you cheaper.

Our biggest competitors all ended being media companies themselves, for example Disney is an obvious one, but another was Toca-Boca, at first they looked like a tiny indie studio, but somehow they ALWAYS get featured in multiple magazines, store front pages and so on, eventually I found out they were created by a multi-billion media empire named Bonnier,

Since then I found that is easier to get money from creating other things, since I don't have the necessary media connections.

Well, even NORMAL games often need media connectios (for example, Jon Blow was a journalist before he made Braid, Nintendo literally printed their own magazine for a while, the indie clique that existed around TIGSource was heavily tied to CMPMedia, many of them being presenters in events, or being friends of their employees, or working for them directly, the whole thing is very "incestuous").

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#60
post #43
post #39

> 1. The things you learn by yourself stick; the things that are “taught” to you do not stick. This is called Active Learning and there are decades of work that have gone into demonstrating it's effectiveness. Also see: Constructivism. Although the majority of k-12 education still emphasizes passive learning, constructivist approaches to learning are being taught around the world and in the U.S. (Papert's work is a g…

3. Freedom of learning happens after school. You can't expect to be graded on a course you made up.

Sure you can, you just have to change the way outcomes are measured.
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