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US Senators ask Apple to pull DUI checkpoint apps

news.cnet.com

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Re: US Senators ask Apple to pull DUI checkpoint apps

#51

Post by artmageddon »

reneherse wrote: post #44
pyre wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's just let the officer determine that for himself, shall we? ;)

Whatever. There's been more than one time where I was coming home from work at night and after the commute found a DUI checkpoint stationed on the main road right in front of my street. No way I was going to sit through the bullshit waiting just to "prove my innocence" as you seem to imply we all should. Just like if it were a major, road-blocking accident, the answer for me (and I'm sure many people who were not sob…

Slightly off topic but still relevant: There's actually legislation in some states that would permit the police to chase you if they see you purposefully trying to evade a DUI checkpoint. It differs by each state(or municipality?), but New Mexico seems to have enacted that:

http://www.albuquerquecriminallawyerblog.com/2009/09/uturn-t...

Re: US Senators ask Apple to pull DUI checkpoint apps

#52

Post by wtflolly »

bambax wrote: post #46

How much simpler it would be for Apple to simply follow the law instead of trying to devise its own set of rules... Is the content legal? Then it's available on the app store. Is it illegal? Then it's not. Does it offend some group or the other? It doesn't matter. Does it cause displeasure to a bunch of lawmakers? Tough luck. But when Apple starts to pull apps that offend minorities, it has to take all those requests…

Simpler for who? For Apple, sure.

But what about the customers who prefer a store that carries a somewhat curated selection of goods to one that carries everything? It's certainly not simpler for them.

Maybe you want to shop in a store where White Power 4 Kids is a click away, but I don't. And I don't want my kids shopping in that store either.

Re: US Senators ask Apple to pull DUI checkpoint apps

#53

Post by bricestacey »

tomjen3 wrote: post #8

It used to be that Danish police would tell the radio stations where they would conduct station people with radar guns to check for people driving too fast. Since the goal was to prevent speeding, it didn't matter if they slowed down because they wanted to avoid a ticket so long as they slowed down. These days they don't do so anymore because it is a nice way to pad government coffers, but it would be nice to build s…

I believe they still do this in the United States. At least, they did last I lived in north Florida.

Re: US Senators ask Apple to pull DUI checkpoint apps

#54

Post by JoeAltmaier »

LordBodak wrote: post #33
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? All these sales are to upstanding citizens wanting to save a traffic stop? Then why isn't the app called "traffic stop"? Its called "Tipsy" or something like that. It covers only DUI traffic stops. Who is this marketing to? Who is buying it? We all know the answer. Yes, its good to protect freedom of speech. Its also good to make the streets safer. And DUI is a real problem, not a strawman.

The average speed trap doesn't affect traffic (unless you happen to be the person pulled over). DUI checkpoints often have miles of stopped cars waiting to go through.

So you plan to buy 'Tipsy'? Just wondering how much of this is a strawman

Re: US Senators ask Apple to pull DUI checkpoint apps

#55

Post by JoeAltmaier »

ekanes wrote: post #22
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #21

When I was a teenager I knew a lot of cops. They used to tell me they didn't feel right "baiting" drunk drivers, for instance sitting hidden outside of popular bars and waiting for closing time. They felt like if they observed you driving impaired, you got pulled over, and if you were drunk you got a ticket. To them this was just the right way to act. I think there is a natural balance between people being outrageous…

> They used to tell me they didn't feel right "baiting" drunk drivers, for instance sitting hidden outside of popular bars and waiting for closing time. They felt like if they observed you driving impaired, you got pulled over, and if you were drunk you got a ticket. To them this was just the right way to act. I can't understand that at all. I would agree if it were a victimless crime, or perhaps if they were actuall…

Our town installed traffic cameras so that police Could start patrolling bars etc instead of the highway.

Re: US Senators ask Apple to pull DUI checkpoint apps

#56

Post by JoeAltmaier »

JoelSutherland wrote: post #16
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's going a bit far. People May use encryption for illegal activities. What possible use does the DUI checkpoint software have, outside of enabling drunk drivers?

Maybe I'm sober and don't want to wait in traffic. Or maybe I'm drunk and don't want a ticket. The point is that it doesn't really matter. The very first constitutional amendment ensures that the government's power is limited such that it doesn't need to evaluate the content of its citizens' speech.

Which is being stretched pretty thin to include "IPhone App" as "speech". But ok.

Freedom of speech is expressly limited in cases such as hollering "Fire!" in a crowded theatre. How about defeating police efforts to catch murderers? Child molestors? Drunk drivers?

Seems like its not cut-and-dried is all I'm saying.

Re: US Senators ask Apple to pull DUI checkpoint apps

#57

Post by morrow »

pyre wrote: post #20
artmageddon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same reason it would be nice to know if a traffic-stopping car accident occurred: I would use it for shortening commute times. Why should I wait in line to tell an officer that I'm not doing anything illegal when I haven't been doing anything illegal?

Let's just let the officer determine that for himself, shall we? ;)

Nobody is suggesting that drivers should be free to police themselves as far as the legality of the circumstances of their driving. This is simply a matter of freedom of speech -- if you see a police car doing radar on your drive home, and call your friend (after pulling over ;) ) who you know will be driving this way, to warn him, are you breaking any law?

The principle being defended here is that you are free to share that information under the 1st amendment, however the method of sharing may be performed. It's the reason being a member of the KKK or the Westboro Baptist Church and saying hateful things doesn't automatically make you a criminal. Whether you agree with the speech or not shouldn't affect it's possibility to be spoken.

Re: US Senators ask Apple to pull DUI checkpoint apps

#58

Post by philh »

thecoffman wrote: post #14
philh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, there's a difference between "you shouldn't do this" and "you shouldn't be allowed to do this". At least in this letter, the senators are not explicitly trying or threatening to ban anything.

The quote is taken directly from the article: in fact, it shouldn't even be available

I was unclear. "You" was referring to Apple, not the customers. They're saying you shouldn't be making this available, not you shouldn't be allowed to make this available. Not even your customers shouldn't be allowed to use this, and I feel there's a distinction between something being generally unavailable and something being illegal.

But you're right that if Apple makes it unavailable, it will have a similar effect as if their customers weren't allowed to use it.

Re: US Senators ask Apple to pull DUI checkpoint apps

#59

Post by pyre »

reneherse wrote: post #44
pyre wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's just let the officer determine that for himself, shall we? ;)

Whatever. There's been more than one time where I was coming home from work at night and after the commute found a DUI checkpoint stationed on the main road right in front of my street. No way I was going to sit through the bullshit waiting just to "prove my innocence" as you seem to imply we all should. Just like if it were a major, road-blocking accident, the answer for me (and I'm sure many people who were not sob…

My remark was sarcastic in the extreme. Apparently a would have been a better hint than the winking smiley.

Re: US Senators ask Apple to pull DUI checkpoint apps

#60

Post by LordBodak »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #54
LordBodak wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average speed trap doesn't affect traffic (unless you happen to be the person pulled over). DUI checkpoints often have miles of stopped cars waiting to go through.

So you plan to buy 'Tipsy'? Just wondering how much of this is a strawman

I don't have an iPhone, so I won't be buying it.
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