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Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

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Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#51

Post by rydre »

lilyball wrote: post #44
rydre wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The leaders elected by the citizens or a different way of governance of other sovereign countries have the right to decide what is best for their citizens. American companies should not try to impose their moral values on others. Many eastern cultures do not value privacy as much as you guys do, and it's fine.

Many people who buy Apple products do so because of Apple’s privacy stance. Just because the government wants to violate its citizens’ privacy doesn’t mean its citizens want that.

>Just because the government wants to violate its citizens’ privacy doesn’t mean its citizens want that.

If the majority of the citizens want that, then they can outvote their leaders. If the minority of the citizens want that, they either convince the majority to agree, or they keep quit.

I haven't bought the iPhone for the privacy stance. Apple is a part of PRISM. There is ZERO % chance that their privacy stance is more then a façade. While I try to protect my privacy from other private companies, I do not have that privacy requirement from the government as long as what they're doing is legal and collecting it to the extent permitted by the law. I will instead petition and support senators that would change the law to my liking. But if the majority disagrees, either I stop doing it, or I keep trying to change the law slowly by spreading awareness about why it's wrong.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#52

Post by tarsinge »

ageitgey wrote: post #21

I don't think the pressure on Apple is going to let up. Smart phones are no longer a tech toy and have become a literal part of government and commercial infrastructure. Apple's arbitrary power over the platform is pissing off and embarrassing governments in the COVID era. During COVID, governments around the world have been making major decisions based on mobility data from Apple and Google which shows trends of whe…

What you say makes sense, the problem is that in the (strange?) world we live in I have more trust in Apple than in my government regarding my data, both technically and from an incentive perspective.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#53

Post by bad_user »

rydre wrote: post #39
treebornfrog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree that Apple should bend over backwards. IMO contact tracing opens up a new can of worms and is a doorway to more draconian measures that will erode privacy for private citizens.

The leaders elected by the citizens or a different way of governance of other sovereign countries have the right to decide what is best for their citizens. American companies should not try to impose their moral values on others. Many eastern cultures do not value privacy as much as you guys do, and it's fine.

If you don't like it, then don't buy their products, it's that simple.

Sovereign countries are sovereign of course. But that's a truism that's irrelevant in this discussion. Such countries can ban Apple products if they don't like it. Choose your own values and build your own products.

---

> "Many eastern cultures do not value privacy as much as you guys do, and it's fine."

Actually it's not fine at all, in my opinion. I understand having different values, but we are talking about privacy and being born in the communism of Eastern Europe, I think privacy should be a basic inalienable human right.

I value companies that don't compromise on such values, as it shows not all of them are morally bankrupt.

And yes, I avoid products from Chinese companies for that reason and I'm always skeptical of US products too. Sorry, but I'll never buy stuff from companies like Huawei, not until I'll see a strong commitment to privacy, especially when the administration of the host country sees human rights as an existential threat and targets activists from other countries.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#54

Post by pjc50 »

ageitgey wrote: post #21

I don't think the pressure on Apple is going to let up. Smart phones are no longer a tech toy and have become a literal part of government and commercial infrastructure. Apple's arbitrary power over the platform is pissing off and embarrassing governments in the COVID era. During COVID, governments around the world have been making major decisions based on mobility data from Apple and Google which shows trends of whe…

The UK followed the worst path both technically and in terms of project management; a large part of the work (although it seems not the app itself?) was handed to cronies: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/04/vote-leave-ai-...

> not having permission from Apple to use a specific API in an app

The privacy question is real. While it is very awkward to have companies making public policy, sometimes it's the more secure outcome. See also the FBI's use of exploits to bypass iPhone security.

This is particularly awkward when "a means to determine who has been where and with whom" coincides with a time of large public demonstrations.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#55

Post by kmlx »

help me understand. why such big fuss for such a small platform? isn't google's android much much bigger? if apple's app store is still the place to be due to profits made on the platform then apple is doing something right, no? if they stopped would the app store still be the place for apps?

p.s. haven't installed an app in over a year. i have no interest in mobile apps whatsoever.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#56

Post by kjakm »

ageitgey wrote: post #21

I don't think the pressure on Apple is going to let up. Smart phones are no longer a tech toy and have become a literal part of government and commercial infrastructure. Apple's arbitrary power over the platform is pissing off and embarrassing governments in the COVID era. During COVID, governments around the world have been making major decisions based on mobility data from Apple and Google which shows trends of whe…

>> Yesterday, the UK announced it was abandoning its own COVID contract tracing app and moving to the Apple model because they couldn't figure out how to make iPhones wake up via bluetooth (because that's a private API only available to Apple). A major western government is facing huge public embarrassment in a public health crisis over what comes down to not having permission from Apple to use a specific API in an app.

I would not take the government at its word here. Their entire contact tracing program has been a shambles. They contracted the work out to their friends, put the ex-CEO of one of the countries worst ISP's in charge and wasted months trying to hack together their own soution that was never going to work in the first place. If it was really an Apple issue they could go ahead and release their Android app.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#57

Post by lukeramsden »

sjwright wrote: post #30
Hamuko wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone is welcome to create good end-user experiences with open technologies like PWA Everyone who isn't targetting Apple devices that is. I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that it is not possible to publish an application on the Apple App Store without paying. Period end. I also don't see why there's an expectation that Hey has to pay Apple for providing the app. They are trying to bring…

> I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that it is not possible to publish an application on the Apple App Store without paying. Period end. I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that the same is true for games on the Xbox, PlayStation and nearly every mainstream games console for the past thirty years. Pretty much every games console software title included a healthy cut for N…

Video game consoles are not comparable to smartphones, smartphones are an integral part of (Western) life, communication, co-ordination - a video game console is purely entertainment.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#58

Post by sjwright »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #33
sjwright wrote: post #11

If the US Government wants to place limits on certain fees, they should pass a law limiting such fees. Meanwhile, it's a bit hypocritical for the US Government to accuse private corporations of ‘highway robbery’ when they themselves are committing (or failing to outlaw) literal highway robbery in the form of civil forfeiture.

> Meanwhile, it's a bit hypocritical for the US Government to accuse private corporations of ‘highway robbery’ when they themselves are committing (or failing to outlaw) literal highway robbery in the form of civil forfeiture. Indeed it is. So they should address both, not use the current existence of one to excuse the other.

To be clear, I wasn't saying that one excused the other. I was only commenting on the congressperson's poor choice of words.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#59

Post by pjc50 »

bad_user wrote: post #53
rydre wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The leaders elected by the citizens or a different way of governance of other sovereign countries have the right to decide what is best for their citizens. American companies should not try to impose their moral values on others. Many eastern cultures do not value privacy as much as you guys do, and it's fine.

If you don't like it, then don't buy their products, it's that simple. Sovereign countries are sovereign of course. But that's a truism that's irrelevant in this discussion. Such countries can ban Apple products if they don't like it. Choose your own values and build your own products. --- > " Many eastern cultures do not value privacy as much as you guys do, and it's fine. " Actually it's not fine at all, in my opin…

Not just you, it's the highest law in Europe:

ECHR Article 8 – Right to respect for private and family life

1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

(yes, there is a lot of elasticity in that "except")

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#60

Post by sjwright »

lukeramsden wrote: post #57
sjwright wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that it is not possible to publish an application on the Apple App Store without paying. Period end. I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that the same is true for games on the Xbox, PlayStation and nearly every mainstream games console for the past thirty years. Pretty much every games console software title included a healthy cut for N…

Video game consoles are not comparable to smartphones, smartphones are an integral part of (Western) life, communication, co-ordination - a video game console is purely entertainment.

That may be true in practice, but it's not something you can create laws around. The US Government shouldn't be in the business of deciding which consumer electronics are integral to (Western) life. Particularly given that the vast majority of App Store profits are going to the makers of games.

If there are going to be mandated limits, they should apply to all companies which build hardware and charge platform access fees to software developers.

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