As a founder of a bootstrapped & profitable company, I don't really get what's so attractive about this funding model. It seems like it's just a really, really, really expensive loan. They make it sound nice with their anti-VC, pro-founder marketing angle. But at the end of the day, they are charging you 3x what you're borrowing.
Indie.vc: Unicorns Are Out, Profits Are In
51–60 of 116 posts
Re: Indie.vc: Unicorns Are Out, Profits Are In
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
> five years, Indie.vc has backed 34 companies That's hardly enough time or data to tell what the actual mortality rate is full cycle. A lot of startups will fail in year 6, 7 or 8 after years of pivots and trying to grow. > On average, they’re growing 100% in the first year, and 300% the second year Assuming $0 in rev on day 1, of course they grow 100% in Y1. These numbers don't mean anything. Philosophically I agre…
Why don't current traditional VC funding vehicles scale down ? Like if you took hypothetical paperwork that says the VC invests $10mm, at a $50mm valuation for Series-A, and just swapped in the numbers $10k and $50k? I'm assuming the overhead of vetting a deal is a mountain of toil for the VC firm, and there are going to be some fixed costs - eg filing fees for S or C-Corp paperwork, lawyer time. But outside of that,…
> Could a tech company automate the shit out of all the toil involved with VC deals and do VC-funding-as-a-service?
At least for Germany: no. Things like notary fees are pretty fixed, and you can't do that stuff without them (well, you can, but than it'll basically be "here's money, please don't screw me as I have zero ability to enforce anything").
Re: Indie.vc: Unicorns Are Out, Profits Are In
#53As a founder of a bootstrapped & profitable company, I don't really get what's so attractive about this funding model. It seems like it's just a really, really, really expensive loan. They make it sound nice with their anti-VC, pro-founder marketing angle. But at the end of the day, they are charging you 3x what you're borrowing.
I agree. This isn't quite an apples-to-apples comparison. But middle-market companies with okay-ish financials can easily get covenant-lite leveraged loans from the gigantic private credit market, for well under LIBOR + 1000 basis points. The current yield-to-maturity on the leveraged load index is 5.64%[1]. 3X in 7 years implies a yield-to-maturity of 17%. Why would any company pay more than three times the cost of…
This would be very attractive to someone who wants to grow their business without taking (more) personal risk than they have already.
Re: Indie.vc: Unicorns Are Out, Profits Are In
#54In short: this author is endorsing a funding model focused on low initial investment and faster profitability. The benefits key benefits are that this funding model results in more women and minorities getting funding, as well as higher rate of companies surviving (10% vs. 44% [1]). The former is good, but probably isn't sufficient to motivate most investors. The latter doesn't necessarily translate into better retur…
"In short: this author is endorsing a funding model focused on low initial investment and faster profitability." -> so basically, Canadian "venture" capital. They don't even want to talk to you unless profitability is there or within a few months. So, basically, it distills to a barely riskier than usual bank loan, except you pay the loan with equity.
I love this. I wish it were a thing, "The Canadian Model".
Re: Indie.vc: Unicorns Are Out, Profits Are In
#55As a founder of a bootstrapped & profitable company, I don't really get what's so attractive about this funding model. It seems like it's just a really, really, really expensive loan. They make it sound nice with their anti-VC, pro-founder marketing angle. But at the end of the day, they are charging you 3x what you're borrowing.
Re: Indie.vc: Unicorns Are Out, Profits Are In
#56This is probably silly but I have often wondered why you don't get straightforward loans in Software. If I were to open a restaurant I would hardly go for a VC. Do banks have something against software businesses ? Are there software companies that have bootstrapped themselves with loans (not friend/family loans) as opposed to VC ?
Software is global, and is fundamentally an innovation business. Once you've written a piece of software that does something useful, you can sell additional copies at zero marginal cost. This tends to make software into a winner-take-all market: there is realistically only one Google, only one Facebook, only one Salesforce, one Amazon, etc. If you try to get into a known market, you are almost certain to fail, because you have to pay all the R&D costs that your competitor has already paid and they can just sell to the customers you would otherwise have gotten at close to zero cost. That means that successful software businesses are almost always doing something fundamentally new - either selling into a new market, or selling a new and different product into an existing market that has changed in some way. Banks are really bad at forecasting the success of new business models that have no financial data to go on - their whole core competency is evaluating financials, so if a company has no revenue but lots of expenses and an uncertain prospect of ever making money, it looks like a universally bad bet for a bank loan. The venture capital industry is all based around answering "How do we finance businesses where success is binary and information about whether the company will be successful is scarce?"
Re: Indie.vc: Unicorns Are Out, Profits Are In
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
"In short: this author is endorsing a funding model focused on low initial investment and faster profitability." -> so basically, Canadian "venture" capital. They don't even want to talk to you unless profitability is there or within a few months. So, basically, it distills to a barely riskier than usual bank loan, except you pay the loan with equity.
>Canadian "venture" capital. I love this. I wish it were a thing, "The Canadian Model".
It doesn't do a great job of serving the country's social needs, and it also doesn't do a great job of producing competitive businesses.
There's a fair number of public funds that get funneled into unproductive firms through things like innovation grants, and there's a lot of protectionism for incompetent incumbents. All of this seems to enrich a small class of elites, at the expense of the public purse. Most Canadians just shrug their shoulders at all this, and move on with life.
Re: Indie.vc: Unicorns Are Out, Profits Are In
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Canadian "venture" capital. I love this. I wish it were a thing, "The Canadian Model".
The Canadian model for business isn't all that great. It doesn't do a great job of serving the country's social needs, and it also doesn't do a great job of producing competitive businesses. There's a fair number of public funds that get funneled into unproductive firms through things like innovation grants, and there's a lot of protectionism for incompetent incumbents. All of this seems to enrich a small class of el…
Re: Indie.vc: Unicorns Are Out, Profits Are In
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
If your startup fails then you software is harder to value. If the bank have ovens at least they can resell them. If you have a piece of software it's much harder to value or sell.
Interesting, in that sense software is like making an art piece where value is uncertain. That definitely opens a viable case for public funded software. Plenty of movies are produced with the help of Govt for example.
Re: Indie.vc: Unicorns Are Out, Profits Are In
#60I say this as a founder that prioritized profitability and outlasted many VC backed competitors and was sick of VCs telling me to increase burn and growth and ignoring my warning of the long term perspectives and risks. We decided not to take VC and are smaller but killing it.
I am glad to see this perspective but it only lasts during a financial crisis then it’s right back to fetishized hyper growth.
As far as I am concerned go ahead and keep your hyper growth VC dollars, I’ll buy your bankrupt portfolio company in a few years with our profit.
As YC says, get to ramen profitability as early as possible and be a cockroach that will survive.