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No Code

vas3k.com

51–60 of 66 posts

Re: No Code

#51
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eventually, there's almost always a need for some edge case, some scenario not quite covered by the no-code framework, and you're back to writing code, even if it's sold as not actually coding.

I'd agree that of course "real" programming is gonna be able to cover a lot more cases than "building blocks" programming can ever cover. A bit like comparing only using libraries vs writing your own code, can get you far but will never allow you to do anything . > and you're back to writing code My point was more geared towards the people who can't write code. So this is not really an alternative for them. So someth…

It's a nice dream, I'm not opposed to it in principle.

However the systems I've seen from vendors pushing (for instance) "no code" data permissions rules on top of an identity database, have quickly shown their rough edges and the need for custom building blocks backed by code (or worse, XML pretending not to be code!). Maybe it's getting better than this now.

Re: No Code

#52
I haven’t been following the no-code “movement”, but it seems to me that this is really a revolt against abusive software development practices justified by UI/UX and of course data lock-in. It seems that people really want editable, transparent, and composable pipelines for common tasks. This is the GNU philosophy for the command line.

Little story: I did a lot of work with Army grunts trying to avoid getting blown up. The main tool was excel. Software shops kept delivering junk that nobody used. The acquisitions guys loved a slick demo and that’s pretty much all it did. They’d come in and install a new server cluster, which means a bigger server room, which means more cooling, which means a bigger generator, which means more diesel trucks, which means more convoys on the road, which means more getting blown up. New grunts would tool around on it for a month and then get a novel task they had to use excel for, and never go back. The acq guys had such disdain for the ‘users’ that they couldn’t imagine that they actually knew WTF they were doing. The slick demo went on to win the DCGS contract, and now they’re stuck with ‘easy’ where they need flexible, customizable, fast, simple (all the way down the stack).

So yeah, now I get it. It’s more like, no-UI than no-code.

Re: No Code

#53
post #15

The second sentence ("First, you work all month, and then you give half of the money to those who didn't work.") is already so blatantly wrong and reactionary that I almost have to force myself to read on - after all, if the premise is already flawed what good can come of it?

Seriously.. it wouldn't be such an aggravating statement if people didn't actually believe it. (To state the obvious, the idea of the taxes is that the money is used to pay for the roads to get you to work, for the education that provides you and your employees the skills to work, and for all the other things that allow society to function so you can work. Yes, including helping people who are looking for work, so th…

And, in Berlin, pays for health care.

Re: No Code

#54

I've gotten sucked into this in the form of MS Power Automate, and it just seems to make everything more complicated and confusing. I spend most of my time looking for workarounds to try to get back the ability to do stuff that any programming language allows. I only learned Access and VBA about a year ago, but I tend to agree with the people who say Microsoft has broken up parts of the functionality of this reasonab…

This makes me feel like there's a good niche for "developer-friendly no-code". I'm a developer and I don't like no-code solutions for all the things you mention. These current tools try to abstract a lot but it ends up becoming severely limited and hard to debug/extend. They might be okay for things like internal business tools, which is what most of them seem to be targeting. On the other hand, I've been playing with Hasura recently. As a full-stack developer, it's amazing. It gets rid of tons of boilerplate for back end dev, and I can focus on building features rather than CRUD plumbing. It's easily extensible using serverless functions. It feels like it's helpful to me more than trying to replace what I do.

Re: No Code

#55

It's not "no code" it's "code later". It doesn't prevent the effort of coding the solution, just moves it down the line and makes it harder. The good part is that (as the article) says, you only need to write the code when you know the code will be used. The bad part is that the no-code solution will break at some point. Usually because some part of the chain introduced a breaking change, or the process its modelling…

> But there are lots of people who sell no-code as a solution that can completely replace code.

And a lot of people are buying in in hilariously bad ways.

Re: No Code

#56
post #52

I haven’t been following the no-code “movement”, but it seems to me that this is really a revolt against abusive software development practices justified by UI/UX and of course data lock-in. It seems that people really want editable, transparent, and composable pipelines for common tasks. This is the GNU philosophy for the command line. Little story: I did a lot of work with Army grunts trying to avoid getting blown…

I would say people want to get rid off developers. The way it usually works is that somebody has an idea useful for humans, but they don't speak code. They then need somebody who knows bits and bytes, but unfortunately probably does not understand the actual idea or its purpose. So what ensues is the developer trying to make a stupid machine do something that somebody else envisioned, as a sort of idea to code compiler. This is not always true -- especially for startups -- but it is I think for the no code part. Now if the developer could concentrate on giving the tools where his expertise is relevant to the people with ideas everything would be amazing. If it can work.

Re: No Code

#57

What do you do when Integromat shuts down?

Same can be said about most cloud platforms that programmers would store their code. "What if Google Cloud shuts down", "What if service X changes their API", "What if your CI/CD provider makes a breaking change in their YAML syntax". This happens, it sucks, but it's not a reason to not host on cloud, use an API, or deploy with a CI/CD. Outsourcing is a calculated risk.

The difference is that Integromat is less fungible than, say, GitHub. If GitHub were to shut down, I could move to GitLab or my own Gitea instance, and it would be a fairly easy adjustment (mostly just changing the domain name everywhere). If Integromat shuts down, you have to completely rebuild your workflow on a competitor's platform because they're not based on a common protocol.

Re: No Code

#58
TL;DR: He relies on 3 different online services to scan business receipts and track expenses. None are needed.

He spends hours (days) trying to automate what he himself claims is only a few expenses per month (and shows a photo of a very thin folder of receipts).

I can’t imagine his business will be ever very successful. He wastes too much time toying with simple things.

But aside from that, if one wants a “no code” solution to tracking expenses, along with imaged receipts in case later proof is needed here you go:

1. Take pic of receipt. If you need multiple pics per image, you can combine images post de facto via something like Apple’s Preview app (save as PDF), or you can use Apple Notes to do for you. I assume other competing platforms have similar options. Worst case scenario: simply add “page-2”, “page-3”, in the file name.

2. Save image file in a directory called “business-receipts”.

3. Name file with receipt date, vendor, amount, and maybe description or anything else. Date comes first for easy finding later. “2020-06-15 ATT 63-00 USD Monthly business cell bill.pdf”

4. Enter transaction into appropriate tab of business finances spreadsheet (cash, bank, credit card, etc.)

5. Add a category for the expense, if you want.

6. Get back to work.

Benefits?

1. No code necessary (unless you count your initial spreadsheet setup and the use of VLOOKUP for reporting). Call me crazy but if you’ve been going through all the gyrations outlined in the article, I assume you’ve mastered VLOOKUP or can do so in 10 minutes and that you’ve also graduated Junior High school.

2. No trusting OCR “auto-populate”. Most of us can type faster than these things can think. Also, if you trust those (without verifying each time), I have some perfectly safe driverless cars to sell you.

3. Almost no technical debt. No API depreciation. No risk of anyone being bought out.

4. Offline. Works without the internet. As did most all business processes 25 years ago on PCs. Amazing. No clunky browser needed either.

5. Secure. Your data is kept Local First. If you choose to backup online, so be it. Encrypt and Backup. But all your prior processing between multiple “services” (with your unencrypted data being manipulated on their ends) is no longer necessary.

Counter-Arguments:

1. Excel is now also a “service”: True but it’s more popular and has more staying power than any of the ones you’re using. If you really think you don’t want to pay monthly for Excel (not sure what business can avoid this), there are plenty of free options. And for the purposes of this method, at least, you could do this on Excel 97 (buy once, use ‘forever’).

2. Still have to deal with online storage: Well, no you don’t, but let’s pretend that you only trust hard drives in the cloud and not the $100 4Tb one you can get at Walmart. So what? Encrypt and send it on up. If you use Macs or Office365, you likely have plenty of room already. Why involve another third-party? But anyway, this is a part of the “no code” process you added as if it was unique only to that process. It’s a bigger part of a different decision on how you store, encrypt, and/or backup your business data. A single line CRON job would take care of this, unless you count that as “code” since it involves typing a line of text instead of 47 mouse clicks.

3. This isn’t multi-user: True. Based on the 2 receipts per month statement, and the thin Lemonade Stand folder of receipts, it didn’t seem worthy of that functionality. If multi-user is needed, and the free WaveApp is costing you sleep, Quickbooks is your solution. Welcome to the world of Big Boy Businesses where the owners work hard and underlings do data entry into complex software.

Re: No Code

#59
post #52

I haven’t been following the no-code “movement”, but it seems to me that this is really a revolt against abusive software development practices justified by UI/UX and of course data lock-in. It seems that people really want editable, transparent, and composable pipelines for common tasks. This is the GNU philosophy for the command line. Little story: I did a lot of work with Army grunts trying to avoid getting blown…

I would say people want to get rid off developers. The way it usually works is that somebody has an idea useful for humans, but they don't speak code. They then need somebody who knows bits and bytes, but unfortunately probably does not understand the actual idea or its purpose. So what ensues is the developer trying to make a stupid machine do something that somebody else envisioned, as a sort of idea to code compil…

Asking people what they want is an underrated skill.

Re: No Code

#60
post #15

The second sentence ("First, you work all month, and then you give half of the money to those who didn't work.") is already so blatantly wrong and reactionary that I almost have to force myself to read on - after all, if the premise is already flawed what good can come of it?

I'm assuming you didn't actually force yourself to read on: > Disclaimer #2: My stupid jokes in this post are not intended to insult someone or impose any radical opinions. They're here for a better connection with reality through an ironic reflection of it. Because the stupidest things in the World are always done with a serious face. And yeah, I know how taxes work and I always pay for apps, even the shitty ones. B…

If a joke is stupid, it's not worth being made.
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