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The blissfully escapist comic novels of PG Wodehouse

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Re: The blissfully escapist comic novels of PG Wodehouse

#51

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #32
klenwell wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you could call Orwell's essay an exoneration but it is, to my reading, no defense. It strikes me as sharply political and moral. And, I agree, scintillating literary criticism. Your excerpts go to the heart of the argument. If Orwell thinks it's nonsense to call Wodehouse a fascist, it's not because Wodehouse was necessarily above fascism. It's because he was too silly and stupid ("the events of 1941 do not c…

It's more like praising with faint damn, I think. Orwell was a man of the pretty-far left. The public-school class system must have been anathema to him (at the same time as he was a product of Eton—where, by the way, fellow future anti-utopian novelist Aldous Huxley was his French teacher) and yet he presents Wodehouse not as any kind of villain but just hapless and obsolete. So obsolete that you'd never guess that…

[deleted]

Re: The blissfully escapist comic novels of PG Wodehouse

#52

Post by robotmay »

robotmay wrote: post #6

I love the 90s TV series with Fry and Laurie (as in the article image), but I've sadly never managed to get into the books as I have an extreme dislike of books written in the first person. There are a lot of good books I've missed out on because of this. My desire to try and get into the Wodehouse books is pretty high, though, so perhaps another attempt is warranted.

I'm really confused as to why people keep downvoting this comment. Are you offended that I can't read first-person books? :\

Re: The blissfully escapist comic novels of PG Wodehouse

#53

Post by robotmay »

mdlman wrote: post #49
robotmay wrote: post #6

I love the 90s TV series with Fry and Laurie (as in the article image), but I've sadly never managed to get into the books as I have an extreme dislike of books written in the first person. There are a lot of good books I've missed out on because of this. My desire to try and get into the Wodehouse books is pretty high, though, so perhaps another attempt is warranted.

Out of curiousity, is your dislike for first person any different when you listen to a story instead of read it?

Good question! If I'm sat listening to someone in person spinning a yarn then I have no issues, although story-telling seems oddly different to a written story somehow. I don't really listen to audiobooks because I find it quite hard to concentrate on them, but I am curious as to whether it would work better there. Maybe it hits some sort of weird mid-point?

Re: The blissfully escapist comic novels of PG Wodehouse

#54

Post by klenwell »

dang wrote: post #32
klenwell wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you could call Orwell's essay an exoneration but it is, to my reading, no defense. It strikes me as sharply political and moral. And, I agree, scintillating literary criticism. Your excerpts go to the heart of the argument. If Orwell thinks it's nonsense to call Wodehouse a fascist, it's not because Wodehouse was necessarily above fascism. It's because he was too silly and stupid ("the events of 1941 do not c…

It's more like praising with faint damn, I think. Orwell was a man of the pretty-far left. The public-school class system must have been anathema to him (at the same time as he was a product of Eton—where, by the way, fellow future anti-utopian novelist Aldous Huxley was his French teacher) and yet he presents Wodehouse not as any kind of villain but just hapless and obsolete. So obsolete that you'd never guess that…

> So obsolete that you'd never guess that Wodehouse would outlive Orwell himself by 25 years.

That is one of those "Cleopatra lived closer to the building of Pizza Hut than the pyramids" facts.

I just looked it up. Wodehouse even outlived the Beatles!

Re: The blissfully escapist comic novels of PG Wodehouse

#55

Post by mdlman »

robotmay wrote: post #53
mdlman wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiousity, is your dislike for first person any different when you listen to a story instead of read it?

Good question! If I'm sat listening to someone in person spinning a yarn then I have no issues, although story-telling seems oddly different to a written story somehow. I don't really listen to audiobooks because I find it quite hard to concentrate on them, but I am curious as to whether it would work better there. Maybe it hits some sort of weird mid-point?

Could be worth a shot. I used to strongly dislike first person narrative, but it is less of an annoyance now, and some of my favorite books are from that perspective. I think it was partly reading and discussing some of my friends' favorite books (e.g., The Perks of Being a Wallflower), where their enthusiasm helped me appreciate it, and partly listening to good readers (e.g., Martin Jarvis reading Wodehouse or The Dresden Files read by James Marsters).

It might also have helped to read first person narratives where the narrator was more observer than actor (e.g., The Great Gatsby).

Re: The blissfully escapist comic novels of PG Wodehouse

#56

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

muststopmyths wrote: post #30

I don't think anyone has ever made me physically roll around laughing since Wodehouse back in my youth. I wish the libraries were open again.

Wodehouse is available online: his works have started entering the public domain

Re: The blissfully escapist comic novels of PG Wodehouse

#57

Post by dang »

082349872349872 wrote: post #34
dang wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like praising with faint damn, I think. Orwell was a man of the pretty-far left. The public-school class system must have been anathema to him (at the same time as he was a product of Eton—where, by the way, fellow future anti-utopian novelist Aldous Huxley was his French teacher) and yet he presents Wodehouse not as any kind of villain but just hapless and obsolete. So obsolete that you'd never guess that…

Was the Brave New World that anti-utopian? For all we know, the island may have been super chill.

There's a great old web comic about the differences between Orwell's and Huxley's anti-utopias and how Huxley predicted the future much better. I bet your question is related to that development.

Re: The blissfully escapist comic novels of PG Wodehouse

#58

Post by egypturnash »

esperent wrote: post #39
egypturnash wrote: post #21

I have fond memories of reading his stories of rich imbeciles wittering about and having their asses repeatedly saved by their silently obedient and scarily smart butlers, but I am not sure I could read them now without the same uncanny change in how I view the "tinny/woody" Python sketch: all these total dumbfucks going on about the most inane thing possible -- while a whole set of servants stand behind them, waitin…

The tinny/woody Python sketch was _always_ meant to be viewed that way. That's why I love Python so much - they used absurdist humour as a vessel for scathing social commentary which at the time pushed the boundaries of the acceptable.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that part of it just went right over my head when I was twelve and it was on the local PBS station just before/after Doctor Who. :)

Re: The blissfully escapist comic novels of PG Wodehouse

#59

Post by 082349872349872 »

dang wrote: post #57
082349872349872 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the Brave New World that anti-utopian? For all we know, the island may have been super chill.

There's a great old web comic about the differences between Orwell's and Huxley's anti-utopias and how Huxley predicted the future much better. I bet your question is related to that development.

Yes. I'd be grateful if you ever remember an URL.

Specifically, Mond tells us (ch 16):

"One would think he was going to have his throat cut," said the Controller, as the door closed. "Whereas, if he had the smallest sense, he'd understand that his punishment is really a reward. He's being sent to an island. That's to say, he's being sent to a place where he'll meet the most interesting set of men and women to be found anywhere in the world. All the people who, for one reason or another, have got too self-consciously individual to fit into community-life. All the people who aren't satisfied with orthodoxy, who've got independent ideas of their own. Every one, in a word, who's any one. I almost envy you, Mr. Watson."

Re: The blissfully escapist comic novels of PG Wodehouse

#60

Post by dang »

082349872349872 wrote: post #59
dang wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a great old web comic about the differences between Orwell's and Huxley's anti-utopias and how Huxley predicted the future much better. I bet your question is related to that development.

Yes. I'd be grateful if you ever remember an URL. Specifically, Mond tells us (ch 16): "One would think he was going to have his throat cut," said the Controller, as the door closed. "Whereas, if he had the smallest sense, he'd understand that his punishment is really a reward. He's being sent to an island. That's to say, he's being sent to a place where he'll meet the most interesting set of men and women to be foun…

Looks like https://highexistence.com/amusing-ourselves-to-death-huxley-...

via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5433283

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