Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people • Hacker News Board

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#51

Post by rubber_duck » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:01 PM UTC

subhro wrote: post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

I've seen it a bunch in companies where the management was less formal - but not in IT, my impression of IT culture is borderline autistic - social interactions are very awkward compared to other industries I've worked in (manufacturing, marketing and newspapers) so this wouldn't go over well. Admittedly I didn't fit in well in those circles because I would put myself in the IT category, but I can still spot the difference. Even the tone of this discussion sounds so formal and alien to how people usually interact.

So I saw situations where it was said as a joke and taken as one, I wouldn't describe it as cruel or stupid.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#52

Post by gowld » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

_gfrc wrote: post #14

This is along the lines of "Ha, taking half the day off, are we?" when somebody leaves a little bit earlier than usual. It sounds like (just) a bad joke, but it has severe consequences for your working relationship. I get that it's tempting to make jokes when you start managing for your old team members. Just accept the fact that you've switched positions and that your relationship will change. It will only make it m…

One of the few memories I have of my old job was my grandmanager saying "leaving early today?" As I passed them in the hall at 5pm.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#53

Post by binarytox1n » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:03 PM UTC

I agree with the sentiment wholeheartedly - It’s easy for technical people promoted to a people management role not to realize that their words now have a significantly greater affect on morale.

The author did a good job expanding on situations that are now not funny, but here’s another one that I see all the time:

Butts in seats. As a manager, anything you say about the clock, the vacancy ratio of an employees chair, anything about time management really is not a joke. It is making the employee feel as though the work they do is not valued and that you expect them to be meat decorations prettying up an office chair.

I used to think that when I was promoted I could still be “one of the guys” - and I try hard to get quality time with the team, joke around, etc - but over time it’s become clear that I can never escape the new context in which my words and actions are perceived.

I can no longer shit on bad code like I used to - I now need to discover how we ended up with the deficiency, plan to correct it, and assure the rest of the engineers that we do have high quality standards we need to live up to.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#54

Post by cosmodisk » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:03 PM UTC

This is a good advice. I did this a few times(everyone involved understand the situations as jokes and had a good laugh+ it's England,so insta-fired almost doesn't exist), however what's funny for one,is outright scarry to another. I had enough situations where people screw up and think they'll be fired, while nobody is even remotely considering it, so it's better to avoid those kind of jokes altogether. A good rule is that religion, politics, immigration,and the work itself should be left out from any professional setting.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#55

Post by jariel » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:03 PM UTC

subhro wrote: post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

I've seen it happen a few times and in every case, the context was such that it was very well known to be a joke and done in a very self-deprecating manner so it wasn't a problem.

But it still shouldn't be done.

Cases, where it's used as a tiny micro-aggression or kind of with a dark undertone, are especially bad.

New managers may not quite comprehend the existential nature of the comment.

There are a ton of worse things that new managers do, usually, things need to be spelled out clearly.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#56

Post by craftinator » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:03 PM UTC

subhro wrote: post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

I've had this happen at two jobs. Both times I immediately voiced that that was in poor taste, and next time they joke about it they'd best just let me go, because I don't want to work for someone who doesn't respect my livelihood. At the first job I was reprimanded for being "confrontational", which led to the second job where the manager apologized and took it to heart; we have a great working relationship now. It's the manager's responsibility to be the champion of good communication.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#57

Post by jarcoal » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:03 PM UTC

subhro wrote: post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

I once jokingly said it to an employee and immediately felt bad about it. Did a quick all-hands (we're a small company), apologized and said it wouldn't happen again.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#58

Post by kryogen1c » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:03 PM UTC

This misses the larger lesson: separate your personal and professional interactions, especially with people at different levels of responsibility.

Its a hallmark of a junior manager, someone who doesn't know where the line for their authority is. its trying to coax your subordinates into giving you power over them - but you already have it. its a form of cowardice, of uncomfortability. the opposite of this is the manager who gives all their power to THEIR manager, ie "idk man, this doesnt make any sense to me either but thats the way corporate wants it done." well if all you are is a mouthpiece for corporate, then what good are you?

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#59

Post by RankingMember » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:03 PM UTC

bzb3 wrote: post #15

lwall wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps managers who can't see they're on shaky ground making such a joke are liable to be problematic in some other capacity.

You are right. Nothing worse than a manager with a sense of humour. That ruins companies.

A manager with a sense of humor is different from a manager who jokes about ending your employment. Imagine getting pulled over and a cop jokes about arresting you- are you laughing or do you feel unnerved? You were being sarcastic, but unnerving employees by making jokes rooted in your power over others does have the potential to negatively impact company culture and thus the company itself. The power dynamic matters.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#60

Post by pbhjpbhj » Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:04 PM UTC

myth_drannon wrote: post #39

subhro wrote: post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

The CEO of one of my previous companies at his birthday celebration joked at one of the employees that if he doesn't sing Happy Birthday song louder he will fire him. And this is not the worst that has come out of his mouth.

That's kinda perfect if you want to mess with them - lots of witnesses!

Refuse to sing, from then on they can't fire you without a strong possibility you'll win an unfair dismissal suit. YMMV.