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Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

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Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#51

Post by L3viathan »

simosx wrote: post #32
fxtentacle wrote: post #17

The main reason why I use Linux for some of my work is reproducibility. A docker image with the same apt packages installed in it will work the same every time. Snap breaks this. A snap package can update itself whenever it wants and then you the user are just screwed when things don't work together anymore. So in effect, snap breaks the main benefit of Linux for deployment and the reason why I use Linux in the first…

There are keys to control when these snap updates will happen, https://snapcraft.io/docs/keeping-snaps-up-to-date It is immutable systems that help you with reproducibility. There is no actual change between the snapd setup in Ubuntu 18.04 and Ubuntu 20.04. Where do you get info on unreliable docker deployments? It looks to me that the dislike is emotional in nature.

Can I stop one snap from updating (for example indefinitely), while letting the rest update?

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#52

Post by voqv »

dathinab wrote: post #44
jimhefferon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What distro? I use Ubuntu because I just want an OS, not a hobby.

If you have linux experience Arch Linux can be a good idea. Sure the daunting setup process would fall into the "a hobby" category but once it runs it tends to just keep running as long as you update it from time to time. Using it now for ~5 Years and in that time I had two times problems one was that the new kernel version didn't work with my laptop and another which was fully my fault by doing some "special" boot s…

Before switching to Arch, check if packages you rely on for your job are not in the AUR. It became "a hobby" really quick for me to rebuild my entire dev stack because of the bleeding edge approach and "let's update every week and fix source code while we're at it".

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#53

Post by cpascal »

simosx wrote: post #32
fxtentacle wrote: post #17

The main reason why I use Linux for some of my work is reproducibility. A docker image with the same apt packages installed in it will work the same every time. Snap breaks this. A snap package can update itself whenever it wants and then you the user are just screwed when things don't work together anymore. So in effect, snap breaks the main benefit of Linux for deployment and the reason why I use Linux in the first…

There are keys to control when these snap updates will happen, https://snapcraft.io/docs/keeping-snaps-up-to-date It is immutable systems that help you with reproducibility. There is no actual change between the snapd setup in Ubuntu 18.04 and Ubuntu 20.04. Where do you get info on unreliable docker deployments? It looks to me that the dislike is emotional in nature.

From the linked documentation:

>

> There are four system-wide options that manage how updates are handed:

> - refresh.timer: defines the refresh frequency and schedule

> - refresh.hold: delays the next refresh until the defined time and date

> - refresh.metered: pauses refresh updates when network connection is metered

> - refresh.retain: sets how many revisions of a snap are stored on the system"

>

I think people would be much happier with snap if there was a `refresh.off` option.

If that's too over-the-line for Canonical, a `refresh.prompt` with a dismissible nag-message would be better.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#54

Post by fxtentacle »

adambyrtek wrote: post #28
fxtentacle wrote: post #17

The main reason why I use Linux for some of my work is reproducibility. A docker image with the same apt packages installed in it will work the same every time. Snap breaks this. A snap package can update itself whenever it wants and then you the user are just screwed when things don't work together anymore. So in effect, snap breaks the main benefit of Linux for deployment and the reason why I use Linux in the first…

I agree in principle, but it's worth pointing out that Snap is designed for end-user applications, so it's unlikely to be used on a server or in a Docker image built for deployment.

I agree in general, but my work involves website automaton, meaning the now empty chromium package.

Plus I want my workstation to be as similar as possible to the deployment container to make debugging easier. So if I feel uncomfortable using Ubuntu 20 for my workstation, I should probably switch my deployment docker base image, too.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#56

Post by bxparks »

karatestomp wrote: post #8
henriquez wrote: post #3

I dumped Ubuntu over Snap. Maybe I’m just ignorant but it seems like allowing developers to push software updates without any review invites the same sorts of issues we’ve seen on npm, with very high risks for certain use cases. I don’t want that kind of relationship with my OS, forced updates are why I ditched Windows in the first place. Aside from the philosophical concerns I ran into a lot of glitches with various…

Launch times and (silly, but it really bugged me) pollution of my `df` output drove me away.

Yup, the output of df became so cluttered that it became useless. So I created this alias:

> alias df='df -x tmpfs -x squashfs -x devtmpfs'

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#57

Post by non-entity »

Sevaris wrote: post #49
dathinab wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have linux experience Arch Linux can be a good idea. Sure the daunting setup process would fall into the "a hobby" category but once it runs it tends to just keep running as long as you update it from time to time. Using it now for ~5 Years and in that time I had two times problems one was that the new kernel version didn't work with my laptop and another which was fully my fault by doing some "special" boot s…

Ugh, no. Manjaro is the no-nonsense "I really don't want to waste time troubleshooting my own shit" version of Arch Linux. I stopped using Arch when I found Manjaro and I'm so glad I did. Arch just requires way too much fiddling for it to ever feel "complete" and or finished.

Does Manjaro do pretty well with wireless and graphics drivers. I honestly want something I can live boot, install and use immediately. I dont mind customizing later, but I've had my fun fighting with getting linux set up.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#58

Post by eberkund »

This appears to be an unpopular opinion, but I like snaps and Canonical's philosophy in some ways mimics that of Apple's where they care about usability over configurability.

Snaps have been my preferred method of installation for a few years now. I really like how I know where the files are being installed to and if I uninstall the software it will be removed cleanly. I also like how for most software snaps contain the latest release of the software which has not been my experience with distro specific apt repos. I can even install beta, nightly or previous releases very easily using snap store channels. I've never experienced any package manager on any OS that has made it this easy.

I've also developed about a half dozen snaps, some of them were open source contributions to existing software, others were my closed-source projects and one was some contract work for a third party who wanted to snap their existing software for easier distribution. And although there were some pain points, I found the process and YAML based manifest file to be far better than most tools.

My only gripe with snaps at this time is that there is no system like PPAs so if you want to use snaps for your privately distributed app then you need to do it through Canonical and more advanced control features will cost you extra.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#59

Post by marcinzm »

simosx wrote: post #32
fxtentacle wrote: post #17

The main reason why I use Linux for some of my work is reproducibility. A docker image with the same apt packages installed in it will work the same every time. Snap breaks this. A snap package can update itself whenever it wants and then you the user are just screwed when things don't work together anymore. So in effect, snap breaks the main benefit of Linux for deployment and the reason why I use Linux in the first…

There are keys to control when these snap updates will happen, https://snapcraft.io/docs/keeping-snaps-up-to-date It is immutable systems that help you with reproducibility. There is no actual change between the snapd setup in Ubuntu 18.04 and Ubuntu 20.04. Where do you get info on unreliable docker deployments? It looks to me that the dislike is emotional in nature.

>There are keys to control when these snap updates will happen

There is no option to permanently disable auto-updates which is the problem being discussed.

If I install a docker image with version A and it auto-updates tomorrow to version B then the docker container is no longer reproducible.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#60

Post by progval »

bad_user wrote: post #39

While I understand the concerns over Snap, you can't blame Canonical for trying, because lets be honest, rpm/deb packages are a mess. I see in the comments a complaint that you don't want the developers upgrading their apps whenever they want ... really? Because that's my number one complaint for debs/rpms too. You can't install specific versions, you can't install multiple versions side by side and installing a newe…

> You trusted the app developers as soon as you installed that app on your computer with full privileges.

No, I don't.

First, most apps' code won't run as root. Only install scripts, written my distribution's maintainers, run as root (except for core applications, of course).

And secondly, I trust app developers to write their app properly (to a certain extent), but not to write install scripts that won't mess with my system, because it's outside their domain of expertise.

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