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Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

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Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#51

Post by partyboat1586 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #37
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right and it is no secret: - 40% of US Americans are B12 deficient https://www.livekindly.co/b12-deficiency-genetic-makeup/#:~:... . - 42% are Vitamin D deficient: https://www.cantonmercy.org/healthchat/42-percent-of-america... . - up to 50% are Magnesium deficient: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.h... - 10 - 20% of women are iron deficient: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0301/p671.h…

Presumably it's relatively easy for a lab to run a panel of tests on me and say "you're deficient in X, Y, Z; try eating more A B C; spend 30mins extra a week outside; drink less alcohol". How easy is it too get such tests (in UK), I'm surprised we don't seem to have anything like this as part of our health system. I've had blood pressure and height/weight taken a couple of times (I'm middle aged). But that's about a…

It should be part of the health system. For now in the UK we have lab services like this one: https://thriva.co/ (not affiliated). You send your blood by post and they analyse it.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#52

Post by axegon_ »

snikeris wrote: post #31
axegon_ wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite my somewhat limited knowledge in biology, my intuition was telling me that the number of patients seems way too small to come to definitive conclusions. Mind you, if Vitamin-D, magnesium and B12 play a role, that's good news for me: I've been very strict about those 3 in the past 2 years(and coincidentally loaded up my magnesium stash yesterday).

Magnesium is something I've recently been interested in as well. Surprisingly, you don't find it in many multivitamins, or if you do, it's in small quantities. My guess is that it would make the multivitamin too large if it were included. Leafy green vegetables are a good source of Mg, but most people don't eat enough of those.

Yep, but even with green vegetables, you'll struggle to get anywhere near the daily recommendation, around 400mg per adult. And that might be significantly more if you are active in some sports for muscle recovery. Personally I can feel the difference given that I exercise daily and I do a 20000 step walks every morning. But yeah, I rely on supplements, which is kind of the easy way out. And even the very good ones are pretty cheap(mine set me back around 20 euros and go for 3 months).

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#53

Post by MaxBarraclough »

arghzzz wrote: post #22
barbegal wrote: post #15

The methodology mentions nothing about randomization so its unclear if there was any selection bias here. If you look a table 2, the control group was on average 6 years older and had more co-morbidities. This suggests that there was some selection bias and that other undocumented factors could have greatly affected this experiment. Doing multi-variate analysis with such a small sample size gives rise to huge uncerta…

However, taking 3 vitamins is almost entirely harmless.

Vitamin overdoses can be serious in the worst cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_A

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_D

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#54

Post by andy_ppp »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #19
mikece wrote: post #16

I wonder, when I see stories about studies about treating patients with basic nutrients and vitamins, if a root-cause to consider is that our standard diets are so deprived of essential vitamins and minerals that "treating" someone with what they have been missing causes the body to simply function the way it's supposed to. I haven't read the full study but if it takes into account what someone's diet was prior to th…

You are right and it is no secret: - 40% of US Americans are B12 deficient https://www.livekindly.co/b12-deficiency-genetic-makeup/#:~:... . - 42% are Vitamin D deficient: https://www.cantonmercy.org/healthchat/42-percent-of-america... . - up to 50% are Magnesium deficient: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.h... - 10 - 20% of women are iron deficient: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0301/p671.h…

These are also from recommended amounts which we have no idea what optimal is. Has there been studies to say what the blood levels of vitamin d etc. should actually be?

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#55

Post by nkozyra »

snikeris wrote: post #48
nkozyra wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vitamin D has been thrown around a lot from the get-go, probably because of its value against other forms of coronavirus including SARS and viral infection in general. My layman's understanding is that supplementation hasn't shown to be effective, meaning D deficiency may be a co-indicator. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7189189/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3308600/#:~:tex... .

Perhaps Vitamin D status is just an indicator of adequate sunshine on the skin. This would explain why people with low vitamin D are more susceptible, yet supplementation with Vitamin D is ineffective.

I've seen two theories floated:

1. Vitamin D as a side effect of sun exposure is not itself the important indicator. Instead, some other biological response increases immune response simultaneously. Hence, D supplementation is itself copying the wrong response.

2. Vitamin D deficiency is caused by illness, hence it actually doesn't affect mortality and the relationship is not casual.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#56

Post by Traubenfuchs »

Angostura wrote: post #47
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right and it is no secret: - 40% of US Americans are B12 deficient https://www.livekindly.co/b12-deficiency-genetic-makeup/#:~:... . - 42% are Vitamin D deficient: https://www.cantonmercy.org/healthchat/42-percent-of-america... . - up to 50% are Magnesium deficient: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.h... - 10 - 20% of women are iron deficient: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0301/p671.h…

I just followed the link you posted about 40% being B12 deficient but could not find 40% mentioned anywhere other than the headline.

There is a link in the second paragraph. https://www.emaxhealth.com/13955/vitamin-d-deficiency-and-ge...

I am not writing a peer reviewed article. Just wanted to throw out some numbers to engage with the thought of widespread deficiencies. If you want more reliable information there is lots of material available online.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#57

Post by dboreham »

Spooky23 wrote: post #8

Was this known early on about COVID? Early on in the lockdown I noticed that these vitamins were among the kind of weird items completely cleared out of stores. People were very selective... initially all FHD laptops and Chromebooks were gone, along with power strips, ibuprofen, hair clippers, etc.

Also Zinc Lozenges.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#58

Post by ageitgey »

Foivos wrote: post #3
ageitgey wrote: post #2

N=43 (17 given vitamins vs 26 not) Highlights: "Significantly fewer DMB patients than controls required initiation of oxygen therapy subsequently throughout their hospitalization (17.6% vs 61.5%, P=0.006)." "DMB combination in older COVID-19 patients was associated with a significant reduction in proportion of patients with clinical deterioration requiring oxygen support and/or intensive care support. This study supp…

> Since taking a basic multi-vitamin is good anyway.... Could you elaborate on that? I thought that taking vitamin supplements without a recommendation from a doctor is just a way to have very expensive piss. Most of the things that get in, are removed from the body without being absorbed.

It depends on where you live. Some places in northern latitudes such as the UK recommend everyone take daily Vitamin D supplements due to low UV exposure in the late-fall/winter/early-spring.

See https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-...

As far as if that means you take that as a multi-vitamin pill vs D3 supplements alone I guess is up to the individual. But either option only costs a few dollars/pounds. Maybe I was a little loose with language saying multi-vitamin.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#59

Post by bonoboTP »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #19
mikece wrote: post #16

I wonder, when I see stories about studies about treating patients with basic nutrients and vitamins, if a root-cause to consider is that our standard diets are so deprived of essential vitamins and minerals that "treating" someone with what they have been missing causes the body to simply function the way it's supposed to. I haven't read the full study but if it takes into account what someone's diet was prior to th…

You are right and it is no secret: - 40% of US Americans are B12 deficient https://www.livekindly.co/b12-deficiency-genetic-makeup/#:~:... . - 42% are Vitamin D deficient: https://www.cantonmercy.org/healthchat/42-percent-of-america... . - up to 50% are Magnesium deficient: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180226122548.h... - 10 - 20% of women are iron deficient: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0301/p671.h…

If so, and I think it is so, do capitalistic employers who employ highly paid employees (like software developers in the US) incentivize them (pay the cost and time to) check these things medically and get supplements etc? Brain fog and general sluggishness etc can directly impact the creative output of these highly paid professionals.

Re: Study of the effect of Vitamin D, Magnesium and Vitamin B12 on Covid-19 patients

#60

Post by partyboat1586 »

yomly wrote: post #43
Foivos wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since taking a basic multi-vitamin is good anyway.... Could you elaborate on that? I thought that taking vitamin supplements without a recommendation from a doctor is just a way to have very expensive piss. Most of the things that get in, are removed from the body without being absorbed.

This is a misnomer according to a recent guest on the Joe Rogan podcast. Granted that might not be the best source, I reflected on that and the chemistry makes sense. Vitamins primarily will leach out via osmosis. Osmosis works by gradients. This probably means an exponential decay of absorption relative to concentration and as you consume more, your body will waste progressively more and uptake will be less efficien…

Dr Rhonda Patrick was the guest if anyone is interested. Worth watching with paper and pen (or digital equivalent).
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