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New threat to the economy: Americans are saving like it's the 1980s

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Re: New threat to the economy: Americans are saving like it's the 1980s

#51

Post by conductr »

bobthepanda wrote: post #46
conductr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made that comment more so because normally our extremely polarized bipartisanship would prevent these types of changes from being made. Even if someone like Bernie was president, no way his agendas make through legislative branch. This depression will test our country’s ability to rally and cross political lines for the good of the people the way we have in the past. Something that previously was far left may seem…

The trick is framing. Simply frame it as "put America back to work" and "making it easy to work" and you sidestep most of the red scare trigger words. Part of the decline of the American left in formerly blue collar areas, IMO, is simply that it has become more academic and less attempts at sloganeering or actually doing work to reach out to disaffected people; polls keep revealing that Americans actually like the ni…

That’s my point, we can now frame as win win win with a story most can get behind. Before it was red vs blue ideology battle royale.

I don’t really want to tackle the decline of left amongst certain demographics. Too much to get into on that one :)

Re: New threat to the economy: Americans are saving like it's the 1980s

#52

Post by digitaltrees »

Fjolsvith wrote: post #50
digitaltrees wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two problems with this analysis and data. 1. These gains aren’t enough to undo the decoupling of wages from productivity that has resulted in real wage stagnation. (See here https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ ), 2. These wage increases haven’t exceeded inflation so actual household spending power has decreased in real terms. Basically consumers have less ability to spend because more profit is being captured.…

The point is that the last two years is a change over the last 30.

But it’s not though. There were wage increases in the 90s, mid 2000s and then the ones you site. Those relate to the business cycle and don’t undo the structural problems and trends that I highlight.

Re: New threat to the economy: Americans are saving like it's the 1980s

#53

Post by austincheney »

teilo wrote: post #49
austincheney wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The job of the producers is to produce what the consumers want, not the consumers to accept whatever they want to produce! But that is the current general practice of software, especially online interconnected software, to force acceptable product preferences to the consumer without regard for consumer demand or competition. Developers typically dictate the choice of architecture and framework and then specify acce…

No one forces you to buy or use software. How is software different than any other product? It's engineered a certain way, and offered to customers, who either buy it or do not. Companies who develop products without regard for consumer demand or the competition are eventually unemployed. They may have a defacto monopoly for a time, but it inevitably ends. Competition is not only real, but fierce in software, as anyo…

> How is software different than any other product?

Software is unregulated.

> Competition is not only real

You are imagining an unstated opinion. I never claimed competition is absent from software but that software developers make decisions without regard for that competition and impose those decisions upon their products without regard for their users or business revenue.

> Companies who develop products without regard for consumer demand or the competition are eventually unemployed.

That sounds like hyperbole. Advertising companies, as an example, do very well without regard for competition or the end user. Companies will continue so long as they are cash flow positive.

Re: New threat to the economy: Americans are saving like it's the 1980s

#55

Post by 082349872349872 »

bobthepanda wrote: post #45
082349872349872 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want germans and chinese to import your production, you'll need to raise standards to meet theirs. For pork, this has already started happening: Hormel, JBS, and Tyson are no longer taking ractopamine-dosed hogs, even though they're still legal to sell to US consumers.

To be quite clear, I'm not saying that only US goods need to be bought by Germans and Chinese. Those consumers are generally thrifty overall relative to their share of the global economy, and a global economy based on one country's consumer demand is simply not going to be a healthy one. High German savings was one of the things that led to the Euro crisis, since you cannot simultaneously run trade surpluses with all…

You can start shorting chinese real estate: I was just reading the other day that WTI going negative had badly burned many chinese retail investors. (as for germany, I'd call that an argument against currency unification ... but that's an entirely different thread)

If a country saves too much forex, one can slap sanctions on them for being a "currency manipulator". If a firm saves too much cash on hand, one can find a corporate raider (which the germans and chinese also have) to make a hostile LBO.

However, for thrifty households, there don't appear to be any similar sticks, only carrots. How would you propose to incentivise german and chinese households to consume more than they do?

Re: New threat to the economy: Americans are saving like it's the 1980s

#56

Post by Fjolsvith »

digitaltrees wrote: post #52
Fjolsvith wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that the last two years is a change over the last 30.

But it’s not though. There were wage increases in the 90s, mid 2000s and then the ones you site. Those relate to the business cycle and don’t undo the structural problems and trends that I highlight.

Well gosh. You don't undo 30 years overnight unless you have a magic wand.
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