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German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

hindustantimes.com

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Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#51

Post by taejo »

OJFord wrote: post #46
mark_l_watson wrote: post #39

If he has to be stuck in an airport, the Delhi airport is a good choice. They have sleeping lounges (at least they did when I was their in 2001) where you can sleep, although with zero privacy.

That sounds like any airport then, except they put a 'sleeping lounge' sign up?

Many airports nowadays seem to be deliberately hostile to sleepy travellers, most commonly by having armrests between all seats so you can't lie down across several, but sometimes even by having staff come around and wake up sleeping travellers on a regular basis. The Guide to Sleeping in Airports exists for a reason, and it rates New Delhi highly: https://www.sleepinginairports.net/guides/new-delhi-airport-...

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#52

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #16
techsupporter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be nice if, during a global pandemic, we could not sit around being all judgy going "People fucked over as a consequence of this here global pandemic were just being idiots!" Wholeheartedly agree. Humans of all stripes seem to have this need to place blame on others' failings on the person being "at fault" yet somehow their own mishaps are "bad luck." It's like the comment threads underneath lapses in secu…

If humans were always perfectly capable of never screwing up, the entire liability insurance market would cease to exist. Oh, it gets so much worse than that. If you are the "wrong kind of person" for some reason, misfortune comes at a much higher cost than for other people. In the US, white people generally suffer lighter consequences than people of color for the same mistakes. Men are generally judged less harshly…

> "You fool! ...you [should] have been born a different color/different gender/richer...etc

Do you actually know someone in person who has said this in response to someone else's misfortune? Or are you just using the image of some random person saying this to fuel an anti-white man sentiment?

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#53

Post by dtwest »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #10
supernova87a wrote: post #8

You read these headline grabbing stories, also like the one about the couple stranded in Tahiti during this virus, or the original actual guy behind "The Terminal" movie -- and you usually find out that the story is almost always one of bad judgement combined with somewhat unusual circumstances that they aren't trying to avoid like a normal person would. Sometimes the news tries to make it seem like they were unwitti…

Once you get behind the eight ball for some reason, it can be impossible to get out. I don't know how to get out from behind the eight ball in my own life and I think I'm well educated, talented, virtuous and blah blah blah. It's never enough and I'm not some kind of criminal or something. You don't know the story. Maybe it was self defense. We don't have all the details. It would be nice if, during a global pandemic…

You completely misquoted the parent.

This man is accused of several cases of assault, he may have seriously hurt somebody and they want to take it to court. I also do not see how your US race and gender comments below are relevant to this thread about a German man.

It would be terrible to be wrongly accused of assault. But it doesn't seem like something people should just ignore and give people the benefit of the doubt on.

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#54

Post by DoreenMichele »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #52
DoreenMichele wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If humans were always perfectly capable of never screwing up, the entire liability insurance market would cease to exist. Oh, it gets so much worse than that. If you are the "wrong kind of person" for some reason, misfortune comes at a much higher cost than for other people. In the US, white people generally suffer lighter consequences than people of color for the same mistakes. Men are generally judged less harshly…

> "You fool! ...you [should] have been born a different color/different gender/richer...etc Do you actually know someone in person who has said this in response to someone else's misfortune? Or are you just using the image of some random person saying this to fuel an anti-white man sentiment?

What I'm saying is that in many cases, telling someone you just should have done it differently boils down to dismissing the very real impact their race/gender/sexual orientation/whatever has on their life.

This is why we have terms like "Mansplaining" or "Whitesplaining." That doesn't mean a man or a white person simply acting like you are stupid and need it explained like you are five and then everything will work. It means that in the context of someone who is completely oblivious to the reality that when women do things exactly like men, they get different results socially and when people of color do things exactly like whites, they also get different results.

When two black men were arrested in Starbucks in Philadelphia for sitting there without ordering and asking to be let into the bathroom because they were waiting for someone they were meeting, one of the reasons it was controversial is because of the white patrons who protested it on the basis of "I've sat in here before without ordering and used the bathroom and no one ever called the cops on me."

I have zero interest in fueling anti-white man sentiment. That's absolutely not my agenda. But racism, sexism, etc are very much alive and well. Pretending they aren't is being part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#55

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #54
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "You fool! ...you [should] have been born a different color/different gender/richer...etc Do you actually know someone in person who has said this in response to someone else's misfortune? Or are you just using the image of some random person saying this to fuel an anti-white man sentiment?

What I'm saying is that in many cases, telling someone you just should have done it differently boils down to dismissing the very real impact their race/gender/sexual orientation/whatever has on their life. This is why we have terms like "Mansplaining" or "Whitesplaining." That doesn't mean a man or a white person simply acting like you are stupid and need it explained like you are five and then everything will work.…

> telling someone you just should have done it differently boils down to dismissing the very real impact their race/gender/sexual orientation/whatever has on their life.

Race and gender may still play a role, but acting like it is the determining factor in one's life is too much. People have agency over their lives, and can make choices to make their situations better. The fact that someone is white or male does not negate this. I live in rural Missouri, and there are plenty of white people who make bad decisions and hurt their prospects in the process.

Also, "whitesplaining" and "mansplaining" are really incredibly racist and sexist. You should really consider using other terms.

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#56

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

chosenbreed37 wrote: post #47
vinay427 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not prohibited from returning for legal reasons. He's prevented at the moment due to an apparent lack of (direct?) flights. This isn't a normal issue with some German citizen stuck abroad who failed to register. As far as I can tell from the article, he was not planning to return to Germany as he is wanted for a crime there, and was on his way to Turkey through India when India-Turkey flights were canceled. I im…

> I imagine Indian authorities would have to cooperate with the German embassy once a flight that is to their satisfaction is available to put him on the flight. Can they really compel him to board a flight to Germany against his will? I mean technically he's still in-transit and not actually under Indian jurisdiction...

This is a common misconception, but a transit area is under the host country's jurisdiction.

https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/18561/what-is-the...

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#57

Post by DoreenMichele »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #55
DoreenMichele wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm saying is that in many cases, telling someone you just should have done it differently boils down to dismissing the very real impact their race/gender/sexual orientation/whatever has on their life. This is why we have terms like "Mansplaining" or "Whitesplaining." That doesn't mean a man or a white person simply acting like you are stupid and need it explained like you are five and then everything will work.…

> telling someone you just should have done it differently boils down to dismissing the very real impact their race/gender/sexual orientation/whatever has on their life. Race and gender may still play a role, but acting like it is the determining factor in one's life is too much. People have agency over their lives, and can make choices to make their situations better. The fact that someone is white or male does not…

I generally don't use those terms. I was just saying they exist for a reason.

I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the leader board of HN. My gender continues to prove to be a barrier to effective networking here and I have been here nearly eleven years and between my old account and this one I have over 50k karma, which would put me fairly high on the leader board if it were under one account.

I'm not acting like race or gender are "the determining factor," but my experiences in the last decade or so make it painfully clear that a factor like gender can be stubbornly hard to overcome, no matter how hard you try and all that.

I made it my hobby to try to get articles to the front page of HN while I was homeless. I hit the leader board about a month after I got myself back into housing without going through some program and then I changed my handle. So for various reasons when I share my thoughts and observations on things like poverty or gender issues, some folks here are interested.

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#58

Post by theklub »

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #21
Matt3o12_ wrote: post #2

> “While others were facilitated by their embassies concerned and were taken for quarantine, officials from the German embassy informed the Indian bureau of immigration that Ziebat is a wanted criminal in their country with several cases of assault and other crimes registered against him. Since he was on a foreign land, they did not take his custody." This sounds highly suspicious to me. If he is a wanted criminal, I…

Germany would be happy to have him board a flight to Germany, where he would be arrested on arrival, the problem is that there are (now) no flights at all. India is unwilling to let a convicted criminal in the country, but he has committed no crimes on Indian soil, so they're not arresting him. In a scenario like this there's very little the German embassy can do, it's not like they have their own private jail ready.…

At what point does living in a airport become a crime?

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#59

Post by moises_silva »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #55
DoreenMichele wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm saying is that in many cases, telling someone you just should have done it differently boils down to dismissing the very real impact their race/gender/sexual orientation/whatever has on their life. This is why we have terms like "Mansplaining" or "Whitesplaining." That doesn't mean a man or a white person simply acting like you are stupid and need it explained like you are five and then everything will work.…

> telling someone you just should have done it differently boils down to dismissing the very real impact their race/gender/sexual orientation/whatever has on their life. Race and gender may still play a role, but acting like it is the determining factor in one's life is too much. People have agency over their lives, and can make choices to make their situations better. The fact that someone is white or male does not…

> but acting like it is the determining factor in one's life is too much

I did not read that at all. This is the key message IMHO:

> If you are the "wrong kind of person" for some reason, misfortune comes at a much higher cost than for other people. In the US, white people generally suffer lighter consequences than people of color for the same mistakes. Men are generally judged less harshly than women for various things. Etc.

More eloquently explained here: https://www.quora.com/Is-life-easier-as-a-white-person/answe...

Keyword: "easier"

No one is saying they don't have agency, but sometimes, having a headstart is all it takes for a big difference in results over the years, not to mention if that advantage doesn't go away your whole life.

Perhaps beside the point, but also some people do not believe in 'agency' or 'free will' as such, myself included. I consider myself privileged, and I'm not white.

> Also, "whitesplaining" and "mansplaining" are really incredibly racist and sexist. You should really consider using other terms.

That we agree on.

Re: German man living at Delhi airport since March 18

#60

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #57
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> telling someone you just should have done it differently boils down to dismissing the very real impact their race/gender/sexual orientation/whatever has on their life. Race and gender may still play a role, but acting like it is the determining factor in one's life is too much. People have agency over their lives, and can make choices to make their situations better. The fact that someone is white or male does not…

I generally don't use those terms. I was just saying they exist for a reason. I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the leader board of HN. My gender continues to prove to be a barrier to effective networking here and I have been here nearly eleven years and between my old account and this one I have over 50k karma, which would put me fairly high on the leader board if it were under one account. I'…

I understand that your perspective is vastly different from most people on this site, and I do appreciate your input. Without people like you speaking up, certain issues would never be addressed.

My only request is that you avoid emotional and logical amplification of reality. Using terms like mansplaining and whitesplaining, and using phrases like "And, also, if you had any sense, you would have been born a different color/different gender/richer...etc" exaggerates a bad situation, makes people in those identity groups defensive, and weakens your argument. Reality is unfair enough that just highlighting it will lead to change eventually.

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