A lot of these compassionate posts about protecting previously-unknown or unconscious things/creatures/human groups etc, is that they systematically have no mentioning of what they want to achieve, and the roadmap towards that. Sure, if you want to raise awareness, but for what purpose? To provoke meat-eating people's conscience? Or make them angry? Edit: Comments did a great job of explaining the objectives, and rat…
Animals killed since opening this page
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Re: Animals killed since opening this page
#52Re: Animals killed since opening this page
#53Re: Animals killed since opening this page
#54Uncomfortable thoughts: Let's say first world countries in the West get on board with not eating meat anymore. How do you exactly go about telling impoverished countries/peoples to stop eating meat? Would we ban meat and force them to eat some substitutes? But food is an important part of culture and we would be erasing their culture if we did that wouldn't we? Should we give some cultural groups the right to eat mea…
How about setting an example first and not worrying about other countries?
Re: Animals killed since opening this page
#55Yes, humans eat animals. "Top of the food chain" means something. It means lunch. Delicious lunch. Oh man, now I want a chicken sandwich with bacon on it.
Re: Animals killed since opening this page
#56However, let's say hypothetically we're only talking about farms run with a focus on animal welfare. (And not just giving animals 10 square feet of 'pasture' so they can say they're free range, but really.) So the issues of poor living conditions are removed, and we're just talking about killing animals for meat. If people stopped eating meat altogether, most farm animals simply wouldn't be born in the first place. Farmers aren't going to raise animals if they can't eventually earn money from them, obviously, and most of these animals wouldn't exist in large numbers in the wild. So what I'm wondering is, for a farm animal is it not possible that a decent life followed by being slaughtered for food might be superior to no life at all?
Obviously if we think in terms of humans, that would be horrific; we consider killing humans unnecessarily an absolute moral wrong. If someone decided they would have a child, but only if they could murder them after some period of time, that's obviously monstrous. I'm just not sure that that analogy applies to farm animals who certainly are living creatures who feel pain, but don't have the same understanding of the world and their place in it that humans do. To me that's the rational reason why the the idea of killing humans could be considered differently from killing other animals. That said, I expect the real reason we instinctively feel that killing humans is wrong is more an evolutionary drive to protect our own species.
I do grant that it's uncomfortable to think about when the analogy to humans is drawn. For some I'm sure it's uncomfortable even without consciously making that connection. I can absolutely understand why someone would therefore conclude it's morally wrong to use animals for food. I'm just not sure I agree.
Re: Animals killed since opening this page
#57Some context for the scale of this: “[F]armed poultry today makes up 70% of all birds on the planet, with just 30% being wild. The picture is even more stark for mammals – 60% of all mammals on Earth are livestock, mostly cattle and pigs, 36% are human and just 4% are wild animals.” https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/21/human-ra...
Re: Animals killed since opening this page
#58Just wish it was illegal to show smiling chickens on chicken packs. It desensitize people from treating meat as previously living beings. Ideally each animal product comes with the imagery like one you get now on cigarette packs (but of an animal in a cage/slaughterhouse) + appropriate cost increases for welfare. Recent law introduction of putting 1, 2, 3 stars on animal product packages to signify how well animal wa…
Makes sense to me. At a minimum people should know how reality looks.
Meat eaters are going to want the nasty images taken off of packaging, and the cheaper option is to lobby to remove them, not pay substantially more for an idyllic, pasture-raised, humane future.
Congratulations, you now have a pro-factory-farming lobbying group with actual grassroots support.
Might also have more people on your side; might not. Worth considering the adversary in any move of this nature.
Re: Animals killed since opening this page
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or plants killed since opening this page.
Or thoughts dying in an empty brain. That would be something.
Thinking about memes as living organisms (infomorphic beings?) would be an interesting way to frame cultural decay.
Re: Animals killed since opening this page
#60Why are human skulls shown next to the cows and chickens? When cows or chickens are killed they leave behind cow skulls and chicken skulls not human skulls.