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Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

theatlantic.com

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Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#51

Post by labster »

eweise wrote: post #42
aphextron wrote: post #2

We just need to make the office an optional place that people can gather when they feel the need to. I have no problem at all working a 5 day 40 hours work week from home. But this nonsense of everyone waking up at the same time, sitting in traffic, and cramming into "open plan" work spaces has to go.

Sorry it won't happen. An office packed with humans is all about stroking the CEOs ego. Its just not the same seeing your servants on a screen vs packed together doing the boss's bidding.

But closing the office pads the CEO's pocketbook! So some will choose to close offices but others will keep it open. It will probably be divided between companies whose CEO is motivated primarily by money or by motivated by power.

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#52

Post by tehjoker »

fiblye wrote: post #25
tehjoker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to always be that guy, but this is the sort of situation in which one might wield the strike, a coordinated worker action, to prevent home spyware from being installed. If you work within a framework of uncoordinated individual action, domination of the individual by the interests of the corporation is the logical result.

I'd like to hope that would happen, but I'm more afraid there'd be media/government complaints of "lazy workers with the privilege of working at home and doing nothing are STRIKING!" and people would eat it up. There are people out there saying a minimum wage of $7.25 is too high and we should get rid of it entirely. I think in many places, workers would fear they'll lose even more by striking for privacy.

That's true. The anti-union propaganda would be present. The trick is making sure your message gets out there too and emphasizes the contradictions between the employer's desire and power to compel people to submit to invasive surveillance in their own homes and our rights to be free of such invasive measures through relatable stories.

The people that take the side of the employer are broadly the corporate owned media, but when hearing the labor side of the story, the public is often sympathetic because the majority of people are workers, not employers.

> There are people out there saying a minimum wage of $7.25 is too high and we should get rid of it entirely.

Those people are not the ones being subjected to such wages. People's political analysis is largely directed by material self interest. The vast majority of the population is made of precarious workers who resent the people that would say that.

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#53

Post by Jaruzel »

abyssin wrote: post #43
eweise wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry it won't happen. An office packed with humans is all about stroking the CEOs ego. Its just not the same seeing your servants on a screen vs packed together doing the boss's bidding.

I disagree. Although offices can have their downsides, I personally can't work remotely because I find it so cold and boring.

It's all about choice. Employees should be able to work in the environment that is best for their well-being. Happier employees tends to result in increased productivity.

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#54

Post by nsomaru »

acd wrote: post #50

Social distancing to stop the spread binary version: Loop: 1) Work monday-friday 6 hours practise strict social distancing. Work remote if you can. 2) Weekend rest from social distancing see friends. Its like a binary four square wave with on / off. Reason: If we practice good social distancing the spread time of the Covid is five days.

"spread time"?

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#55

Post by saiya-jin »

JSavageOne wrote: post #45
eweise wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry it won't happen. An office packed with humans is all about stroking the CEOs ego. Its just not the same seeing your servants on a screen vs packed together doing the boss's bidding.

Yes this is true. Employers have so much leverage in this labor market, and nobody ever got promoted in a large corporation for promoting workers' rights. The only solution seems to be: 1. Universal Basic Income - ie. giving people the freedom to say no to sh*tty jobs rather than being forced to take the least bad offer 2. Make a law that gives employees the right to work remotely if their job can reasonably be done…

Is there some new godwin's law that any non-technical discussion will in X steps derail into 'UBI-is-the-only-solution' ?

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#56

Post by jobigoud »

acd wrote: post #50

Social distancing to stop the spread binary version: Loop: 1) Work monday-friday 6 hours practise strict social distancing. Work remote if you can. 2) Weekend rest from social distancing see friends. Its like a binary four square wave with on / off. Reason: If we practice good social distancing the spread time of the Covid is five days.

So you are assuming people may get infected during the week end and won't be infectious the next week end?

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#57

Post by esyir »

Jaruzel wrote: post #53
abyssin wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Although offices can have their downsides, I personally can't work remotely because I find it so cold and boring.

It's all about choice . Employees should be able to work in the environment that is best for their well-being. Happier employees tends to result in increased productivity.

It's also about productivity. If the employee functions significantly worse in a remote position, then extending that to them is going to be often a poor decision.

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#58

Post by enitihas »

JSavageOne wrote: post #47
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #28

For those living (and planning to stay) in areas with high wage standards (like most of the Western world!), keep in mind that remote work also opens your job to competition from much cheaper places. Great for the people in those places, but your happiness to be able to skip the commute may quickly turn into a lot of unhappiness because you can't make a living wage anymore.

That's why we need something like a universal basic income to alleviate peoples' dependence on a job or wage. Outsourcing has already eliminated many peoples' jobs, that's a big reason why Trump and his anti-immigrant rhetoric got elected.

Universal basic income will make the issue the parent talks about more prominent, not less. If you live in a high wage area, and everyone gets same UBI, your life quality will not improve.

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#59

Post by enitihas »

asdhaslkskdh wrote: post #44
daxfohl wrote: post #14

Anybody else feeling like if we're young and healthy we should actively try to contract this thing, self-isolate for a few weeks, and be done with it? It feels almost like this would be the most socially responsible thing to do: reduce the effective R0 and allow things to start getting back to normality. I'm the farthest thing from a "reopen" protester. But I can't help thinking that as a young and healthy individual…

What if this is the new HIV/AIDS? (I'm no fan of oversimplification, but this is what's at stake.)

This is far far worse than HIV, as in it is much much harder to avoid being inflected. The difference between the precautions for HIV and for this is night and day.

Re: Shorten the Workweek to Reopen Safely

#60

Post by nullc »

djhaskin987 wrote: post #12

If everyone started working fewer hours for the same pay you would be effectively devaluing the dollar. You wouldn't actually be adding more value to the economy. Value in the economy is created by work and there is simply no substitute for that. Shortening the work week would simply make less value in the economy, making us all poorer and more idle. Too much idleness I can tell you leads to stress, even more stress…

You are making an unsound assumption that longer hours mean more economic output.

In some kinds of jobs this may be true, but in others-- especially ones with substantial intellectual or creative components-- it isn't.

In some cases studies have showed increased output from reduced working hours.

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