Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories • Hacker News Board

Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories

#51

Post by telesilla » Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 7:05 PM UTC

rosstex wrote: post #13

Rock-a-bye baby, on the treetop. When the wind blows, the cradle will rock. When the bough breaks, the cradle will fall. And down will come Baby, cradle and all. or It’s raining, it’s pouring, The old man’s snoring. He went to bed And he bumped his head And he couldn’t get up in the morning. Tell me these ain't dark.

And relevant today:

Ring-a-ring o'roses

A pocket full of posies

A-tissue, a-tissue

We all fall down

(actually this is not at all related to the plague but it makes a more scary story if we say it does)

Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories

#52

Post by lainga » Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 7:13 PM UTC

copperx wrote: post #50

ivanhoe wrote: post #47

Those books shouldn't be judged by today's norms. They were not written for the children (nor parents... especially not parents) of today, but for children back then who lived in a completely different world. For instance, in the version of Cinderella by Charles Perrault - the version that we all know - one of the evil stepsisters was advised by her mother to cut off her toes in order to fit the slipper. She almost f…

Aren't we and our children exposed to much more violence, blood, and plain evilness in media nowadays? I don't understand how people in those times would be less sensitive to such themes.

I think the operative term is "evilness" - if you are a moderately wealthy westerner in this century, violence and bloodshed are things you have relegated to seeing in media, and not an unavoidable part of life

Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories

#53

Post by foobarian » Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 7:15 PM UTC

ivanhoe wrote: post #47

Those books shouldn't be judged by today's norms. They were not written for the children (nor parents... especially not parents) of today, but for children back then who lived in a completely different world. For instance, in the version of Cinderella by Charles Perrault - the version that we all know - one of the evil stepsisters was advised by her mother to cut off her toes in order to fit the slipper. She almost f…

Or, original Hansel and Gretel - parents dropped them off in in the woods because there was not enough food for everyone.

Or, "The Little Match Girl." Yikes.

Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories

#54

Post by will_pseudonym » Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 7:18 PM UTC

ginko wrote: post #4

This seems to be pretty much par for the course for 19th century children's books. Compare them to the original versions of H.C. Andersen's fairy tales or Hoffmann's Struwwelpeter[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struwwelpeter

This is the 2nd time I've heard of Struwwelpeter. The first time was on The Office (US).

https://youtu.be/OeIi4ni1LvY?t=67

Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories

#55

Post by hy56 » Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 7:25 PM UTC

> If you do this, be sure to read something lighter afterward, like perhaps Anna Karenina’s suicide scene, or a biography of Sylvia Plath

Nobody, including the author, seems to have mentioned the cultural aspect in all this. Allow me:

Q: What is the difference between a Russian optimist and a Russian pessimist?

A: A Russian pessmist thinks that things can't get any worse. A Russian optimist thinks they not only can, but will.

Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories

#56

Post by jan_Inkepa » Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 7:36 PM UTC

goto11 wrote: post #48

Important point many are missing: Folktales were not originally for children. They were told among adults after children had gone to sleep. But when folklorists (like the Grimm brothers) started collecting and publishing folk tales, it became a trend to publish sanitized edition for children. Read something like the Arabian Nights tales in an uncensored version - these were clearly not intended for children anymore t…

For those interested in seeing the scope/variation of cinderella stories, there’s a book “cinderella; three hundred and forty-five variants” https://archive.org/details/cu31924007918299 that is ... I wouldn’t recommend reading it cover-to-cover like I did, but there are some interesting variants hidden in it!

Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories

#57

Post by realo » Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

copperx wrote: post #50

ivanhoe wrote: post #47

Those books shouldn't be judged by today's norms. They were not written for the children (nor parents... especially not parents) of today, but for children back then who lived in a completely different world. For instance, in the version of Cinderella by Charles Perrault - the version that we all know - one of the evil stepsisters was advised by her mother to cut off her toes in order to fit the slipper. She almost f…

Aren't we and our children exposed to much more violence, blood, and plain evilness in media nowadays? I don't understand how people in those times would be less sensitive to such themes.

Hum... Mozart's father (Leopold) took his son and daughter to a public hanging ‘for a jolly treat one free afternoon’.

That would not work, nowadays...

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-marvel-of-mozart-s-l...

Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories

#58

Post by blankton » Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 7:56 PM UTC

hy56 wrote: post #55

> If you do this, be sure to read something lighter afterward, like perhaps Anna Karenina’s suicide scene, or a biography of Sylvia Plath Nobody, including the author, seems to have mentioned the cultural aspect in all this. Allow me: Q: What is the difference between a Russian optimist and a Russian pessimist? A: A Russian pessmist thinks that things can't get any worse. A Russian optimist thinks they not only can,…

Im currently reading Archipel Gulag from Alexander Solschenitzyn and that joke sounds quite familliar. The reality of the past century in Russia really proved optimists wrong. Devestating to read that book. It literally puts me on breaks to just sit and think. Sad that humans are capable of such cruelty.

Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories

#59

Post by dannygarcia » Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 8:17 PM UTC

goto11 wrote: post #48

Important point many are missing: Folktales were not originally for children. They were told among adults after children had gone to sleep. But when folklorists (like the Grimm brothers) started collecting and publishing folk tales, it became a trend to publish sanitized edition for children. Read something like the Arabian Nights tales in an uncensored version - these were clearly not intended for children anymore t…

> Folktales were not originally for children.

I learned this the hard way. I purchased a beautifully made "Grimm's Complete Fairy Tales" to read to my then toddler. There are some particularly disturbing stories but I was surprised by how many were flat out nonsensical or silly (like The Story of a Boy Who Went Forth to Learn Fear [0]). It's fascinating to read these in their (translated) original form. Not your typical bedtime story.

[0] https://www.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm004.html

Re: Tolstoy’s Children’s Stories

#60

Post by mikeInAlaska » Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 8:24 PM UTC

goto11 wrote: post #48

Important point many are missing: Folktales were not originally for children. They were told among adults after children had gone to sleep. But when folklorists (like the Grimm brothers) started collecting and publishing folk tales, it became a trend to publish sanitized edition for children. Read something like the Arabian Nights tales in an uncensored version - these were clearly not intended for children anymore t…

> Walt Disney is often criticized in this context

Disney hired Pixar to put out Tolstoy 1 and 2, then they acquired Pixar and have since released Tolstoy 3 and 4.