Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

curbed.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 121 posts

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#51

Post by wenc »

harimau777 wrote: post #42
arcticbull wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really isn't a problem. So long as you can afford something where your basic needs are met: four walls, clean, safe, sturdy, etc, nobody's entitled to waterfront views. The idea is you create value through your work and utilize the proceeds to upgrade your residence, if that's what you value.

I agree that not everyone's entitled to waterfront views, but I think that in a functioning society everyone would be able to own a decent house (e.g. one that gets sunlight), within a reasonable commute of their work, in desirable part of the country (e.g. in a cosmopolitan city). The difficulty that I see is that housing prices in America are so high that it's unrealistic for moth people to create enough value to p…

> own a decent house (e.g. one that gets sunlight)

I'm not sure this is that important a criterion for most people. Pre-lockdown, I'd leave the house before the sun came up, and got home barely in time to catch the sunset. If I wanted sunlight, I could walk a block in either direction.

I actually have a preference for living in shadier (as in shade, not crime) parts of town, especially neighborhoods with tree-lined streets/boulevards.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#52

Post by iateanapple »

bsanr2 wrote: post #47
mcguire wrote: post #36

Japan may not be the ideal economic model. In the 1980s, Japan had an enormous economic bubble. (This was the period when MITI, the Ministry of International Trade and Industry, was the ultimate Platonic ideal of how to run a country's economy and the Japanese Fifth Generation computing project was going to eliminate "programming" as a job category.) This bubble burst in 1990-1991. It was bad. " GDP fell from $5.33 t…

This needs to be taken within the context of Japan hosting one of the largest economies in the world, despite being substantially smaller in population than countries with economies of comparable size; and also in that their real wage losses 1) pale in comparison to America's, and 2) mean that their real wages are still much higher than most of the world's. I've heard it put that Japan's economy makes it relatively e…

> I've heard it put that Japan's economy makes it relatively easy to live a stable middle class lifestyle

Agreed. If they fixed up their lack of work/life balance it would be a workers paradise.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#53

Post by fiblye »

claudeganon wrote: post #5
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #4

> The first thing to note is that in Japan, housing isn’t an investment. It’s a place to live. The country’s slow population growth means that increases in property values aren’t guaranteed I feel like this is a misleading way to put it. Japanese houses decrease in value, generally quite severely - the conventional wisdom is that after a few decades you might as well just tear it down and build a new one. So there's…

A big component of this is that building codes aren’t really enforced for the construction of single-family housing in Japan. Even if you wanted to buy a used home, you run the risk that shoddy construction could put you at serious danger in the event of the country’s not-so-infrequent natural disasters. This is one reason why most people tear down and rebuild.

Yeah, walking into an average home built 35 years ago and the average one built 5 years ago, the difference is huge. Older ones definitely feel like they'll just pancake during a moderately large earthquake. They also completely lack insulation and many don't even have double pane windows. Nobody wants to buy houses like that in this day and age.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#54

Post by axguscbklp »

codesuki wrote: post #9

I think this headline is misleading in 2 ways. 1. yes you might get a house at this price but it's either 1-2 hours out of the city center (which is fine, just saying Tokyo is large.) Or alternatively it's in bad neighborhoods. (bad is relative if you are from the US) 2. your house will most likely look like this: https://www.ii-ie2.net/dat/5ba1164d.jpg Sayonara sunlight, hello neighbor. here are listings: https://ww…

>Or alternatively it's in bad neighborhoods. (bad is relative if you are from the US)

I've never been to Japan, but I imagine that a bad Japanese neighborhood is incredibly safe compared to a bad U.S. neighborhood. In a bad U.S. neighborhood one has to regularly take precautions in order to not be physically assaulted or even killed by other people.

>your house will most likely look like this: https://www.ii-ie2.net/dat/5ba1164d.jpg

Looks pretty amazing for less than $1000/month.

That said, of course I'm not thinking that Japan is some paradise. What I hear/read about their justice system and their stifling conformist culture doesn't sound very good to me.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#55

Post by exabrial »

You can do the exact same thing in nearly every part of the USA except Blue cities where regulation has moved home ownership out of the poor's reach. For example, California, new construction requires an electric vehicle outlet in garages. If you're poor, you have much better things to be spending $1500 than some charger outlet they will literally _never use_. Instead, regulations on how people want to live their lives and shelter themselves cement a cycle of poverty into these areas.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#56

Post by axguscbklp »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #25
clairity wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that house looks great for $850/mo, and a bmw out front to boot. where do i sign up (in LA)?

You can get a large house that gets a lot of sun and is somewhat walkable / bikeable in Compton for $350k. With 20% down and all taxes & fees & insurance included, that's close to $1700/mo. In San Bernardino, you can get stuff for $250k, which about $1200/mo. You can get trailers in Riverside for $150k, which is about $730/mo.

Are those neighborhoods safe, or are they the kind of places where you have to regularly worry that you might get physically assaulted?

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#57

Post by defterGoose »

exabrial wrote: post #55

You can do the exact same thing in nearly every part of the USA except Blue cities where regulation has moved home ownership out of the poor's reach. For example, California, new construction requires an electric vehicle outlet in garages. If you're poor, you have much better things to be spending $1500 than some charger outlet they will literally _never use_. Instead, regulations on how people want to live their liv…

Extreme political bias aside, you need to check your facts. This article from 2014 estimates the cost for the required 40/80A breaker/conduit at a whopping $50. This is in contrast to the higher cost of adding such capability later.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1095076_ca-to-require-n...

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#58

Post by distantaidenn »

wenc wrote: post #50
codesuki wrote: post #9

I think this headline is misleading in 2 ways. 1. yes you might get a house at this price but it's either 1-2 hours out of the city center (which is fine, just saying Tokyo is large.) Or alternatively it's in bad neighborhoods. (bad is relative if you are from the US) 2. your house will most likely look like this: https://www.ii-ie2.net/dat/5ba1164d.jpg Sayonara sunlight, hello neighbor. here are listings: https://ww…

> 2. your house will most likely look like this Not sure what's wrong with that? That looks pretty amazing actually. I live in a unit that looks similar to that near downtown Chicago. My unit is north facing, and even so, there's more than enough sunlight.

Nothing at all is wrong with it.

I live in a pretty well to do family oriented neighborhood in central Tokyo, and this is a very common design. Although I’m not sure about mortgages, but rents definitely ain’t just $850. But as the parent post said, it’s all about location. Prices nosedive once you leave the center of Tokyo or are off the main train lines.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#59

Post by soared »

The cultural differences make this comparison less meaningful than you’d expect. In Japan you absolutely never have friends over to your house or apartment. Everyone meets at bars or restaurants. Similar to nyc, many apartments in Tokyo are a few hundred square feet and literally only serve as a place to sleep and shower. That means houses aren’t such a major thing and so the Japanese invest way less time and energy (and place less importance on) their homes.

My parents lived in japan and I have a few friends there. I spoke with a friend who works in graphic design on the outskirts of Tokyo who doesn’t even own a fridge - all his meals are eaten outside of his home.

Re: An average family in Tokyo can own a new house for $850/month

#60

Post by RHSeeger »

harimau777 wrote: post #42
arcticbull wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really isn't a problem. So long as you can afford something where your basic needs are met: four walls, clean, safe, sturdy, etc, nobody's entitled to waterfront views. The idea is you create value through your work and utilize the proceeds to upgrade your residence, if that's what you value.

I agree that not everyone's entitled to waterfront views, but I think that in a functioning society everyone would be able to own a decent house (e.g. one that gets sunlight), within a reasonable commute of their work, in desirable part of the country (e.g. in a cosmopolitan city). The difficulty that I see is that housing prices in America are so high that it's unrealistic for moth people to create enough value to p…

> I agree that not everyone's entitled to waterfront views, but I think that in a functioning society everyone would be able to own a decent house (e.g. one that gets sunlight), within a reasonable commute of their work, in desirable part of the country (e.g. in a cosmopolitan city).

Out of curiosity, what is your reasoning behind this belief?

Post reply on HN