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Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

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Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#51

Post by egypturnash »

jariel wrote: post #18
Jagat wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? They do a pretty good job of distilling information and presenting them in a way most people can understand.

'Distilling' I think is the wrong word. They describe a person/event/situation from their highly ideological position. It's high-quality writing, but I stopped reading it for this reason. Edit: from 'AllSides' analysis [1] "Vox's Explainers provide only one side of an issue, making it seem as if the information provided is all readers need to know, when in reality, Right-leaning individuals would likely include other…

Do you have a similar problem with right-leaning sources pushing their own ideology?

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#52

Post by ac2u »

specialist wrote: post #33
Traster wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First tweet: Vox saying face masks aren't the best way to avoid Coronavirus. Actually basically the mainstream view in the US at the time, and still arguable. Note how right now the states aren't mandating masks, they're mandating social isolation. Second tweet: Vox factually reporting the tech industry is eschewing handshakes. Tweet author editorialises that Vox is telling them not to. Third Tweet: Vox factually rep…

About those mask recommendations... Edit: Surgical masks vs respirators. Any advice omitting the distinction is suboptimal . Surgical masks are still useless. Best case is they serve as sneeze guards and visual reinforcement. N95 rated respirators are useful. And in short supply. Since healthcare workers desperately need them and most people don't, their use is currently weakly recommended. Face shields plus respirat…

>Surgical masks are still useless

Useless at what? Be specific, this constant anti-mask reinforcement is bizarre.

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#53

Post by AlchemistCamp »

redisman wrote: post #42
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #5

The context is interesting: https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1248317812260499456 https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1248317824394653697 https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1248317820800086016 https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1248318363538837504 The same company that considerably increased the damage the virus did in their country is now in financial difficulty as a result. They mocked people for avoiding handshake…

It's easy with hindsight to go through any news reporting on covid and point out the mistakes because the situation has been quickly evolving for the last few months. You're comparing what you know now to what was known at the time of each report. Most of the recommendations line up with what the CDC/FDA/WHO/US gov was saying at the time.

> You're comparing what you know now to what was known at the time of each report.

That's a bold claim! I've been following this since December and talked about it in my podcast before people in the US, my co-host included, were taking it very seriously.

Not only that, I was ordered by the Taiwanese CDC to wear a mask for 14 days back in February after taking a brief weekend trip to Japan.

I haven't put much faith in the WHO since experiencing their politically-driven incompetence during SARS 18 years ago when I was a student. In many ways, this entire experience has felt like a replay of SARS, but with a few new verses.

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#54

Post by sampsonitify »

Traster wrote: post #6
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #5

The context is interesting: https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1248317812260499456 https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1248317824394653697 https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1248317820800086016 https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1248318363538837504 The same company that considerably increased the damage the virus did in their country is now in financial difficulty as a result. They mocked people for avoiding handshake…

First tweet: Vox saying face masks aren't the best way to avoid Coronavirus. Actually basically the mainstream view in the US at the time, and still arguable. Note how right now the states aren't mandating masks, they're mandating social isolation. Second tweet: Vox factually reporting the tech industry is eschewing handshakes. Tweet author editorialises that Vox is telling them not to. Third Tweet: Vox factually rep…

What is the role of journalists? The defence that "basically the mainstream view in the US at the time" seems to me the antithesis of why we need journalists at all.

Far too much journalism is either weakly factual, where ideas like masks are taken prima facie and without much thought, or opinion pieces with an ideological bent.

What happened to investigating ideas, to see where they lead? To questioning everyone, no matter their credentials?

The role I would hope journalists would play is to hold people accountable, to question deeply the assumptions that "the mainstream view" entails. This Eric Weinstein tweet hit this home for me: https://twitter.com/ericrweinstein/status/124298155901717299..., which ends with:

> Bring us the heads of the incompetent for removal.

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#55

Post by ac2u »

egypturnash wrote: post #51
jariel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Distilling' I think is the wrong word. They describe a person/event/situation from their highly ideological position. It's high-quality writing, but I stopped reading it for this reason. Edit: from 'AllSides' analysis [1] "Vox's Explainers provide only one side of an issue, making it seem as if the information provided is all readers need to know, when in reality, Right-leaning individuals would likely include other…

Do you have a similar problem with right-leaning sources pushing their own ideology?

What makes you ask that of them? Are you already approaching their point from the opposite angle and want to find out if they've got a bias rather than challenge their point directly?

Are people not allowed to criticise a publication any more without throwing in a token caveat of: "by the way, publications on the other end of the political spectrum do this too, and I equally don't approve of that" to ground their perceived neutrality before someone challenges their argument rather than their motivations?

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#56

Post by ajross »

simonsarris wrote: post #10

I don't have any opinions here but for added context and interest, the two unions involved released statements: NY Mag Union statement on the cuts: https://twitter.com/NYMagUnion/status/1251218401688772608 Vox media union on the cuts: https://twitter.com/vox_union/status/1251174537120616454 > While we appreciate Vox Media talking to us in good faith, we don’t agree with the company’s decision to furlough employees —…

I made this point earlier, but contrast the difference in tone between Vox workers and Amazon workers in what is really a very similar dispute. Cultivating a healthy working relationship with your unions means that when the world blows up, making hard choices doesn't get covered as an existential disaster.

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#57

Post by iateanapple »

redisman wrote: post #42
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #5

The context is interesting: https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1248317812260499456 https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1248317824394653697 https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1248317820800086016 https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1248318363538837504 The same company that considerably increased the damage the virus did in their country is now in financial difficulty as a result. They mocked people for avoiding handshake…

It's easy with hindsight to go through any news reporting on covid and point out the mistakes because the situation has been quickly evolving for the last few months. You're comparing what you know now to what was known at the time of each report. Most of the recommendations line up with what the CDC/FDA/WHO/US gov was saying at the time.

> You're comparing what you know now to what was known at the time of each report.

Not at all.

We are using what we know now to evaluate what tech people said vs what the media said - and the tech people were overwhelmingly right and the media overwhelmingly wrong.

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#58

Post by andrepd »

sampsonitify wrote: post #54
Traster wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First tweet: Vox saying face masks aren't the best way to avoid Coronavirus. Actually basically the mainstream view in the US at the time, and still arguable. Note how right now the states aren't mandating masks, they're mandating social isolation. Second tweet: Vox factually reporting the tech industry is eschewing handshakes. Tweet author editorialises that Vox is telling them not to. Third Tweet: Vox factually rep…

What is the role of journalists? The defence that "basically the mainstream view in the US at the time" seems to me the antithesis of why we need journalists at all. Far too much journalism is either weakly factual, where ideas like masks are taken prima facie and without much thought, or opinion pieces with an ideological bent. What happened to investigating ideas, to see where they lead? To questioning everyone, no…

It wasn't only the mainstream view in the US, it was the leading medical advice by the World Health Organisation. This isn't a matter of questioning politicians, but of trusting reputed experts and expert authorities on technical matters.

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#59

Post by Traster »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #44
Traster wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want me to be fastidious in my representation of his tweets, but you're okay citing this guy who is literally arguing literally just about headlines of articles. He's not linking to the articles and talking about them - he's literally taking headlines and even then he's misrepresenting them. I'm fine talking about his qualifications, but I think it's unfair for you to talk about his biotech start up without talki…

> You want me to be fastidious in my representation of his tweets I want you to be honest in addressing what you disagree with. That's it. > this guy who is literally arguing literally just about headlines of articles. That's just not true. He's dug into the contents of the articles both in podcasts and threads like this one (very near what I just shared): https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1228447960008183808

I think I gave a fair representation of what he was saying, if you disagree, you're welcome to actually point at something specific I said that you think doesn't represent him fairly but I can't address just general gripes.

So let's take your specific tweet here:

He claims recode said :

> "cases...have been contained to those who have recently traveled to Wuhan and their direct family members"

What recode actually said:

> "Public Health officials in the area have said there's currently a low risk to public health; the cases they say, have been contained to those who have recently traveled to Wuhan and their direct family members"

I don't want to accuse you of being disingenuous or what-not,but really? Pretending something is a direct claim of Vox, when actually it's a claim that they're reporting from public health officials in Silicon Valley is a dramatic mis-representation.

Ok, so let's lay aside what I think is mis-representation. The things that this tweeter seems to be claiming are counter points:

>"We're probably going to see human-to-human cases within the united states" Dr Robert Redfield said in an interview with stat.

A claim about the current situation within Silicon Valley cannot be countered with a forward looking statement about the entire US. It just can't. I just don't think this criticism is serious.

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#60

Post by andrepd »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #27
Traster wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First tweet: Vox saying face masks aren't the best way to avoid Coronavirus. Actually basically the mainstream view in the US at the time, and still arguable. Note how right now the states aren't mandating masks, they're mandating social isolation. Second tweet: Vox factually reporting the tech industry is eschewing handshakes. Tweet author editorialises that Vox is telling them not to. Third Tweet: Vox factually rep…

It's fine if you disagree, but it would be constructive if you can at least disagree with what was actually written instead of your interpretation of it. Also, please keep in mind that "that tweeter", as you call him, taught bioinformatics at Stanford, has published papers in the field of clinical/microbial genomics and founded a biotech startup that sold for 375M. He's considerably more informed about the topic than…

>any of the reporters sparring with him

This is rather telling of the way you view things; perhaps it may be part of the problem? "Sparring"?

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