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Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

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Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#51

I tweeted about exactly this last month. Great news! https://twitter.com/dbrophy/status/1241434641250299905

My thoughts at the time: Close contact detection and alerts at the mobile OS level We need to get better and faster at stopping the spread of infectious diseases. Covid is already catastrophic. Next time R could be 5, and mortality could be 5, 10 or 20%. I believe we can use mobile technology to track close contact between individuals, and alert at-risk individuals to potential infections. I believe this could drasti…

> Power: Bluetooth on all the time - battery drain?

I doubt this is an issue anymore for modern devices. Things like smartwatches connect via Bluetooth but still manage to keep the phone’s almost-all-day battery life.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#53
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the number of people wearing masks, I think this would have a decent opt-in rate. Especially since, for most people, this is much easier than wearing a mask.

People can easily tell whether you're wearing a mask, so social "norm building" factors work.

I wouldn't be shocked if some businesses - movie theaters, malls, etc. - asked people to show their contract tracing status for entry.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#54

Does this then allow us to run this in the background on iphone. The Danish and Norwegian governments are looking at using a GPS+Bluetooth based version because iPhone is so common and not able to work with Bluetooth when the app is not active is their argument. Also based on a centralized server. My hope was apple would in this circumstance allow Bluetooth to work differently so avoid unnecessary location data.

Of course you can use Bluetooth in the background. You just have to enable Background Location Access permission as a user.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#55
500 hundred years ago people fed up with the system went to North America to start new.

What is the solution now? Find a new planet to start fresh? Away from government and Apple and Microsoft?

Are there people on this planet who oppose such measures and looking to be voted?

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#56

For the last 4 years I've read a constant stream of articles about how "This will be the end of our democracy", "Democracy is under threat!", etc. If we as a society agree to ubiquitous, mandatory location tracking and a complete suspension of the right to assembly in response to this virus then we never deserved a democracy in the first place.

Did you read about it? This isn't that.

What part? Deriving location from contact tracing is trivial. The fact that its being discussed as opt-in? If participating in society requires that you "opt-in" then what about it is really opt-in?

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#57

Pretty good illustration of how private and secure contact tracing can work here: https://ncase.me/contact-tracing/ Not sure whether that's what this implementation would look like.

"The phone warns Bob to self-quarantine". So the app knows, and the crisis will indoctrinate people to trust such apps.

Once the crisis is over, they'll continue to use such "safe" apps, for other purposes ...

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#59
post #12

The interest in "privacy" around contact tracing seems like a ship that sailed a long time ago to me. Verizon etc all already have this data, and it isn't "private", and so does uber, lyft, and every other overly-aggressive-permission-askning-app that anybody has ever installed. Privacy is really important: but we lost it all a long long time ago. Maybe saying "well now we can do a good job of contact tracing" is at…

In this context I think you can distinguish between three different kinds of location-related data:

* cell tower data

* phone GPS data

* Bluetooth data about proximity to specific other people

For most purposes these are increasing in precision and sensitivity. But also, governments can demand that carriers turn over the first kind, but the second two are generally under some kind of user control according to mobile OS designs. There is no single place that automatically gets this data about every smartphone user.

Some of the discussions about privacy for the kind of technology that Apple and Google are working on here are based on observations like

* there actually is no existing way that health authorities could get detailed Bluetooth proximity information about all smartphone users

* this information is potentially more useful for epidemiological purposes, and also more privacy-sensitive, than just GPS sensor data, because it may more reliably map individual people's interactions with one another (for example, potentially confirming that people were likely in the same room rather than just in the same building)

* there are cryptographic concepts that could potentially make this data useful for contact tracing, if users cooperate to a certain extent, in a way that would still make it difficult to obtain or use the data for a different purpose

Another way of putting it is that many people looking at this question think that there is an incremental privacy harm from disclosing Bluetooth proximity data (compared to data that is already available), and an incremental benefit to epidemiology from finding a way to process this data for contact tracing purposes (compared to data that is already available).

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#60

For context, start with https://www.vox.com/2020/4/10/21215494/coronavirus-plans-soc... The tl;dr is that without a huge , nigh-omniscient program to trace individual cases, we have no choice but to go on and off Covid lockdown for a year or more, with potentially devastating economic consequences. Having Apple and Google develop a built-in tracing program to their phones with firm privacy guarantees is not good, but…

> Only an official effort, led by Apple+Google or maybe FB and then forced upon users, can reach the critical mass needed to make contact tracing viable.

This may be right, but how will said vendors "force it" on users? A system update? That still takes voluntary cooperation.

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