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Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

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Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#51
Data science is correctly valued when you realize how relatively unimportant it is. It is a small cog in a larger machinery (or at least it ought to be).

You see, decision-making involves (1) getting data, (2) summarizing and predicting, and (3) taking action. Continuous decision-making -- the kind that leads to impact -- involves doing this repeatedly in a principled fashion, which means creating a system around the decision process.

For systems thinkers, this is analogous to a feedback control loop which includes sensor measurements + filters, controllers and actuators.

(1) involves programmers/data engineers who have to create/manage/monitor data pipelines (that often break). This the sensor + filters part, which is ~40% of the system.

(2) involves data scientists creating a model that guides the decision-making process. This is the model of the controller (not even the controller itself!), which is ~20% of the system. Having the right model is great, but as most control engineers will tell you, even having the wrong model is not as terrible as most people think because the feedback loop is self-correcting. A good-enough model is all you need.

(3) involves business/front-line people who actually implement decisions in real-life. This is where impact is delivered. ~40% of the system. This is the controller + actuator part, which makes the decisions and carries them out.

Most data scientists think their value is in creating the most accurate model possible in Jupyter. This is nice, but in real-life not really that critical because the feedback-loop inherently moderates the error when deployed in a complex, stochastic environment. The right level of optimization would be to optimize the entire decision-making control feedback loop instead of just the small part that is "data science".

p.s. data scientists who have particularly low-impact are those who focus on producing once-off reports (like consultant reports). Reports are rarely read, and often forgotten. Real impact comes from continuous decision-making and implementing actions with feedback.

Source: practicing data scientist

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#52
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been working in data roles for 10 years and hold a masters in ML. I've hired and managed each of the roles you mentioned. I think of the responsibilities of each of those roles as: -ML Engineers as building software infrastructure to scale machine learning inference and training. -Data engineers focusing on data infrastructure and pipelining into either model inference, training, or other business intelligence p…

How hard could it be to find one person who can do all that?

Depends on the amount of data, reports, pipelines... If the company is small you might not have any of these problems. Every Mom&Pop store has some sort of data to run the business but they don't need a "data" person.

Once you have 10s of datastores + pipelines, 100s of reports and a "data lake" in the TBs you'll likely be needing specialized people.

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#53
This reads as a series of bad job experiences and I think is explained by a wide variety of job functions that all can have "Data Scientist" as a title. Someone else's experience could be totally different. You have to know what to look for and what to avoid. If you're trying to find a DS job, one of your top priorities is finding out what the actual job consists of. For instance, a Data Scientist at Facebook might be called a Data Analyst at many other places--no modeling required.

I know this because I've been on that journey. But there's no reason to expect some department head that's never been exposed to DS to know this. They just copy/paste some other company's job req. If you're more junior, here are my tips:

- If it's a "new DS team" that supports a variety of teams: beware. Bolt-on DS doesn't work well, as it's really hard to build a meaningful solution that's not deeply integrated.

- If it's an old company or in a conservative industry: beware. There are likely to be data silos and difficult ownership models that make it nearly impossible to get and join the data you need.

- If it's a small company: beware. You're likely going to need a broad set of knowledge that's won with several years of experience to be able to build end-to-end solutions that are integrated into the rest of the tech stack.

- If it's not an engineering-driven culture: beware. DS will often be used to provide evidence to someone else whose already made up their mind and pretend they're being data-driven, and you'll be the disrespected nerd that's expected to do what it takes to deliver the answer they want. Most companies claim to be "data-driven", few are, and even fewer understand data-driven isn't always possible or desirable.

Industry is still trying to figure out how to use ML and are still learning that it's not as easy as hiring someone that knows about all the algorithms, but rather it takes deep technological changes to data infrastructure to enable the datasets that can then be used by the ML experts. But you don't have to be the person that helps them figure this out the hard way (i.e. by being paid to not accomplish much due to problems outside of your control). Better to find a place with a healthy data science team that can help you learn and contribute. They exist.

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#54
As a research-oriented data scientist at one of the larger tech companies, I can confirm that even here, a lot of people are unsure about what exactly data scientists are supposed to do. My most frequent request is "tell us why metric X dropped", to which the answer is often a subtle combination of many different factors (often random fluctuation) that doesn't lead to a pleasing actionable result in the sense of "here's why it dropped; go do this to fix it".

The really interesting research type work (Bayesian modeling, convolutional neural networks, etc.) takes a long time to implement and may produce no useful results, which is a really bad outcome at a company that measures performance in six month units of work and highly values scheduled deliverables and concrete impact. Many of the data scientists I work with tend to stick to methods that are actually quite simple (e.g., logistic regression, ARIMA) because these at least deliver something quickly, despite the fact that many of my coworkers come from research-heavy backgrounds.

In my org, there's nothing stopping anyone from pursuing advanced machine learning; for the most part we set our own agenda (in fact, determining priorities is part of the job role). And some people do in fact go after state-of-the-art ML, with some really cool results to show for it. But in terms of career progression and job safety, the risk is just way too high, at least for me personally. I save the highly mathematical stuff for a hobby.

Edit: while this may sound a bit negative, I will add that my description of data science isn't a complaint per se; I am mainly trying to inform those who are seeking a career in data science of what to expect compared to what is often promised. The work that is most valuable to a business is not exciting all of the time, but I don't think there is another job in the tech industry that I would find more enjoyable than my current one at the moment.

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#55
As a scientist, I've worked with data for decades. There's always been a prevailing belief that scientists and engineers with specialized domain knowledge are mostly fumbling in the dark and can be replaced with a general purpose technique.

This was certainly the vibe that I got from "design of experiments" when it was the statistical method du jour. Then from "Bayesian everything" and now "data science." I remember "design of experiments" studies being conducted with great fanfare and success theater, while producing zero results.

The long term theme is that science is hard for reasons that managers don't understand, can't manage, and are reluctant to reward.

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#56
post #40
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought the non-specificity of the term Data Science was a strange criticism for those in the tech industry to make. How many types of SWE are there? Front-end, back-end, full-stack, devops, security, QA... I agree wholeheartedly with your recommendation. Like any other job, each company has different needs and expectations and if you want something else out of the role you'd best avoid that company.

Frankly I have the same criticism of those who use the term software engineer. Engineering is a pretty established profession with a set of standards, ethics and practices. Most of us who work in software are not engineers. We are developers. Similarly, a scientist is one who follows the scientific method to do research. So by that logic a data scientist should be a person who uses the scientific method to do researc…

But why shouldn't software developers also be engineers? Surely the difference isn't just a professional organization and accreditation.

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#57
post #39

Teams being small, data being crummy, infra being hard, and yet expectations being high aren't so much complaints as the they are the job description. The point of data scientists and the related roles listed in the article are not to just churn out the fun stuff, but to wade through the institutional and technical muck and mire it takes to bring the fun stuff to bear on a relevant business problem and to communicate…

Yeah this guy seems to think Data Science work should be like doing a problem set for CS class. Sorry that you have to deal with messy data, fragile infra, and limited resources - I know it's not "fun", but frankly that's what the money is for.

That's the whole point of the article. Expectation (in this case, his own coming out of the bootcamp) vs. reality (what data science is actually like).

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#58

This reads as a series of bad job experiences and I think is explained by a wide variety of job functions that all can have "Data Scientist" as a title. Someone else's experience could be totally different. You have to know what to look for and what to avoid. If you're trying to find a DS job, one of your top priorities is finding out what the actual job consists of. For instance, a Data Scientist at Facebook might b…

- If it's a small company: beware. You're likely going to need a broad set of knowledge that's won with several years of experience to be able to build end-to-end solutions that are integrated into the rest of the tech stack.

For what it's worth, my first job was as a solo data scientist at a series B startup. It was a nightmare and I sucked, but boy did I learn a lot.

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#59
post #33

> Moreover, you may quickly realize much of this work is repetitive and while time-consuming, is “easy”. In fact, most analyses involve a great deal of time to understand the data, clean it and organize it. You may spend a minimal amount of time doing the “fun” parts that data scientists think of: complex statistics, machine learning and experimentation with tangible results. This. Universities and online challenges…

I took a data visualisation class in uni that handled this really cleverly. The second assignment sounded very easy. The teacher provided links to the sources where we could find data. Most people figured that with such a simple assignment (not significantly harder than the first one, which was also easy-ish) they could put off doing it until the last moment. Most people failed. This real world data needed hours upon…

Do you still have the assignment?

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#60
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hard could it be to find one person who can do all that?

Depends on the amount of data, reports, pipelines... If the company is small you might not have any of these problems. Every Mom&Pop store has some sort of data to run the business but they don't need a "data" person. Once you have 10s of datastores + pipelines, 100s of reports and a "data lake" in the TBs you'll likely be needing specialized people.

So far I've spent my career in small teams / startups and it's starting to become apparent that a lot of what's assumed in these titles only applies in larger corporations where resources are abundant and it makes business sense to have a specialist focused on a single aspect.

Unfortunately I'm at a point where I have 'jack of all trades master of none' syndrome and it's causing me to fall in between the cracks professionally. I'd like to move to a larger company where I can develop deep expertise in a narrow topic.

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