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Listen to the moment the guns fell silent ending World War I

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Listen to the moment the guns fell silent ending World War I

#51

Post by pdm55 »

Retric wrote: post #16
DubiousPusher wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will post this at the risk of being downvoted because I am all but a pacifist and it is not a popular position. This is not surprising at all for two reasons. Despite what films will depict, people fighting on the front lines in a war do not generally begrudgingly respect each other. They hate eachother in a way most people probably cannot understand. Many would not pass up the opportunity to rid the world of what…

The 1914 Christmas truce demonstrates otherwise as five months of fighting was insufficient to guarantee hate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce It’s surprisingly difficult to train civilians to kill each other, but governments have discovered how. You don’t do it on the front lines, you do it before they get to the battle field.

A group of men have to react instantly in order to survive. This is the point of your training. You learn to follow orders, instantly. There is no time to discuss the issue. It is a case of kill or be killed.

Re: Listen to the moment the guns fell silent ending World War I

#52

Post by Sophistifunk »

billziss wrote: post #27

Like others I found the recording profound at first. The birds at the end cheapened the experience for me because they made me question the authenticity of the sounds heard and whether this was leaning closer to an actual representation or an artistic interpretation. Perhaps somewhere in between. Assuming that this is leaning closer to an actual representation of the sounds heard on that morning (with the dubious add…

I can't imagine there was much cheering from those actually at the front. It's just too big. Cheering is for spectators.

Re: Listen to the moment the guns fell silent ending World War I

#53

Post by [deleted] »

def8cefe wrote: post #34
gumby wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure that’s true. Apparently very few shots are on target. People seem reluctant to just kill someone else. This “problem” has been ameliorated In recent times via increasingly distant and abstract warfare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killology#The_problem_of_non-_...

https://www.newsweek.com/myth-military-history-94505

[deleted]

Re: Listen to the moment the guns fell silent ending World War I

#54

Post by handojin »

lokl wrote: post #50

As long as we're discussing fictional works about WWI, two great movies are La Grande Illusion and Paths of Glory.

Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs, And towards our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots, But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time, But someone still was yelling out and stumbling And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.— Dim through the misty panes and thick green light, As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight, He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace Behind the wagon that we flung him in, And watch the white eyes writhing in his face, His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin; If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,— My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children ardent for some desperate glory, The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.

Re: Listen to the moment the guns fell silent ending World War I

#55

Post by jimmySixDOF »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #23
Retric wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1914 Christmas truce demonstrates otherwise as five months of fighting was insufficient to guarantee hate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce It’s surprisingly difficult to train civilians to kill each other, but governments have discovered how. You don’t do it on the front lines, you do it before they get to the battle field.

December 1914 was a very different world upon the front lines of WWI from Movember 1918. People still thought that war would looks something like the Franco-Prussian War. > You don’t do it on the front lines, you do it before they get to the battle field. I think you do it by exposing people to years of misery and loss. But a boatload of propaganda doesn't hurt.

"You will be home before the leaves have fallen from the trees."

-Kaiser Wilhelm II, addressing German troops leaving for the front, August, 1914.

Re: Listen to the moment the guns fell silent ending World War I

#56

Post by Retric »

pdm55 wrote: post #51
Retric wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1914 Christmas truce demonstrates otherwise as five months of fighting was insufficient to guarantee hate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce It’s surprisingly difficult to train civilians to kill each other, but governments have discovered how. You don’t do it on the front lines, you do it before they get to the battle field.

A group of men have to react instantly in order to survive. This is the point of your training. You learn to follow orders, instantly. There is no time to discuss the issue. It is a case of kill or be killed.

That’s often closer to propaganda than reality. Militaries want soldiers to put their own lives at risk if it’s a net gain in the war. A soldier maximizing their own odds of survival is rarely that effective.

For example a sniper firing from ambush may kill their target, but it also makes them a giant target. It’s a useful strategy specifically because people are willing to take that risk.

Re: Listen to the moment the guns fell silent ending World War I

#57

Post by spectra72 »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #28
DubiousPusher wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father fought in Vietnam and that is how he began. By the time he left he wanted to kill as many VC as possible or leave or whatever but that is one man's experience. Are you so sure that if you had been able to ask your father immediately after his return what he thought of the Germans or the Japanese he'd tell the same story?

My dad is German :). Did your dad have a desire to kill VC after going home?

Desire to kill may be a bit strong but I distinctly remember sitting with my WWII veteran grandfather in November 1989 (US Thankgiving to be exact) and watching the stories of the fall of the Berlin Wall and the obvious prospect of a united Germany in the near future.

My grandfather and I watched CNN silently and after a while he got up, and as he left the room he remarked "We'll be fighting the bastards within 50 years."

He's got 20 years.

Re: Listen to the moment the guns fell silent ending World War I

#58

Post by natmaka »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #18
Retric wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1914 Christmas truce demonstrates otherwise as five months of fighting was insufficient to guarantee hate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce It’s surprisingly difficult to train civilians to kill each other, but governments have discovered how. You don’t do it on the front lines, you do it before they get to the battle field.

Simple. March them to the front lines and say "If you don't kill them, they'll try to kill you. Go get em!" And lo and behold! they were told the same thing, so everybody starts shooting.

It works mainly because the audience was 'educated', and part of this process lets the power instill its 'values' into youngsters' brains.

In most of the Western World and a not-so-distant past some Christian Church was in charge of this, and we had Crusades, clerics baptizing guns...

The main cause may be the will to 'enhance' the populace by using education in order to inoculate values. We may escape by only teaching fundamentals (either politically neutral or boosting a critical mindset). Letting a central power mix proper education with its messages leads to total war.

Re: Listen to the moment the guns fell silent ending World War I

#59

Post by gentleman11 »

m-i-l wrote: post #13
jtbayly wrote: post #3

I didn't find the audio on that page, but a link to it here: https://codatocoda.bandcamp.com/album/iwm-ww1-armistice-inte... I want to know if the birds were actually recorded at the end, or if it was added for dramatic presentation.

My first thought was that perhaps some of these last minute explosions were like celebratory gunfire[0]. But no, it seems that people were still desperately trying to kill each other knowing full well they only had hours, minutes or even seconds left to do so: "the cease-fire would not come into effect for a further six hours - at 11am ... the final day of WWI would produce nearly 11,000 casualties, more than those k…

Fighting over nothing except marginally better terms in the peace treaty...
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