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The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

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Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#51

Serious question: how do I invest in some of those $10 barrels of oil? It seems like a contract to deliver oil at $10 in 2021 is likely to be worth more than by next year.

The key is not to invest in oil, but in companies that can store it. There's potential for oil tanker storage companies to shoot up as more people realize this. See this article:

https://adventuresincapitalism.com/2020/03/19/crude-contango...

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#52
post #27
post #2

The demand will rise again once this virus is done with.

i hope it doesnt go back to the same levels. So many people are learning to work remotely, i hope they stick to it. i dont know what that means for overall energy usage but it seems it will be cleaner

It will go back to the same level. Nobody likes the situation right now and once the threat of death and disease disappears people will begin to behave as they once did.

Our entire culture and urban physical infrastructure is built around a certain level of oil consumption. The current situation is temporary, the real solution is to replace the source of energy of fossil fuels. We are projected to have green energy be 30% of all energy consumption by 2024 with much of this effort lead by China.

The extreme central control and lack of freedoms that the western world hates so much is exactly what makes China so effective at protecting themselves against COVID-19 and saving the world from an energy crisis. We value freedom but the cost is too high.

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#53
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find a broker, buy some futures.

That's risky though, it's possible to get ruined by buying futures (or put options for that matter) since it's basically a contract that must be fulfilled at some point in the future. AFAIK normally they function as insurance for buyers and sellers, to create more market stability.

Crude futures are liquid enough that you can almost always sell them before fulfillment date if you do not want to be on the hook for the obligation. They can't be early exercised like options can.

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'oil price war' was 3 weeks ago. Things are changing fast these days.

It’s not like that’s suddenly over now. But on top of that, demand is even lower, because fewer people are flying and driving around.

Yes, but the article describes the problem of physical storage running out. This affects the price much stronger than some political gamble.

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#55
post #46

The market is broken because demand is way down, but production isn't being lowered to match. Saudi Arabia intends to keep their production high. The other producers are losing money but haven't reduced output, because changing output levels is more expensive than taking the loss.

I think I read they were doing this in part to hurt Russian producers who would not cooperate with OPEC (KSA wanted to reduce production in a coordinated way). As a side effect this hurts American producers too and could drive them out of business.

Which would be bad for energy independence and in the end give more price control back to OPEC.

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#56
post #46

The market is broken because demand is way down, but production isn't being lowered to match. Saudi Arabia intends to keep their production high. The other producers are losing money but haven't reduced output, because changing output levels is more expensive than taking the loss.

I don't know much economics, but one thing I learned is that markets tend to not work as such when the players are few and motivated by other reasons than pricing. Airlines are one such example, depending on the time period, because being so few and dependent on entry barriers such as airport slots and flying licenses, they can easily collude. Oil producers are even more so, being driven by government decisions and geopolitics more than just profit alone.

So I wouldn't say that the oil market is broken, as much as it has never really worked as a close-to-ideal market.

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#57
post #23

Markets are broken when oil usage develops towards sustainable levels? We have to drastically cut down oil use, let's not pretend that the pre-corona oil consumption was tolerable, much less desireable. Now would be a good opportunity make internaltional agreements to cap oil consumption and extraction to its current level in shutdown, and when the shutdown starts to get rolled back, the shock will be smaller as risi…

From what I read (analysts and decision makers) that's not what's going to happen. Money is injected and more will be to salvage industries and make up the loss (by increasing production after the crisis (or before the end)).

This will increase pollution and energy demands in the coming months at a higher level than before the crisis.

Well, from what I've read. I am a total idiot in these matters.

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#58

What happened to "Peak Oil"? Was there some assumption in those projections that proved to be wrong?

My impression is that there are vast amounts of oil at increasing levels of extraction cost. As cheap oil is used up, the price rises and it becomes financially viable to extract more expensive reserves. Eventually, the remaining oil may be so costly to extract that renewable energy will be cheaper, but it seems unlikely that we will ever extract the last drop of fossil fuels.

(Ignoring all the other reasons for cost fluctuations.)

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#59

What happened to "Peak Oil"? Was there some assumption in those projections that proved to be wrong?

My impression is that there are vast amounts of oil at increasing levels of extraction cost. As cheap oil is used up, the price rises and it becomes financially viable to extract more expensive reserves. Eventually, the remaining oil may be so costly to extract that renewable energy will be cheaper, but it seems unlikely that we will ever extract the last drop of fossil fuels. (Ignoring all the other reasons for cost…

Not to mention if Methane Hydrate comes online - endless natural gas for the price of a drill and pipeline.
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