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The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

nytimes.com

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Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#51

Post by magic_beans »

amalter wrote: post #22
mrdrozdov wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up the press conference by Cuomo.

I’ve watched every one of Cuomo’s press conferences. He message is always clear - that we are trying to not overwhelm the health system. He doesn’t say “flatten the curve” because he believes words matter and tries to communicate to avoid panic (Hence his refusal to call “Stay Indoors” as “Shelter in Place”) But the medical side of the state government - along with their action - has been consistently flatten the cur…

I've been blown away by Cuomo's steady hand and calm reassurance in this time. While De Blasio has flip-flopped from apathy to utter panic, Cuomo has remained fairly consistent. I appreciate his insistence on preventing panic by using specific language.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#52

Post by blisterpeanuts »

jtdev wrote: post #23

I find it incredibly hard to believe that China has stopped community spread within the country - I hope I’m wrong, but I think we’re getting PRC propaganda when we hear about “all new cases we’re imported”.

Maybe they stopped the spread in Hubei, but suppose just one infected person travels to another heavily populated province. What is the contingency plan for this obviously dangerous scenario?

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#53

Post by nkrisc »

mrdrozdov wrote: post #11
oefrha wrote: post #5

If there’s anything the current debacles in Europe and the U.S. has taught us, it’s that selfish and/or irrational jerks abound, and asking nicely doesn’t work at all.

I don’t believe most people are jerks. They are just in disbelief that such a dire situation is possible. Yes, it’s important to ask and with a high level of seriousness. If the internet has taught me anything, it’s that people need to read something 8 or more times before fully internalizing it.

It's the same reason people climb over fences and past signs at the Grand Canyon for a photo and end up falling: they've never experienced mortal danger and and have been so coddled by modern society that they don't even know what it looks like.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#54

Post by DennisP »

Narty wrote: post #19
dbbk wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the UK just ordered millions of antibody tests, that will tell you if you've previously had the virus. If we can confirm that people who previously had it are immune, we should be able to selectively let those back into normal society a lot faster. That's my understanding, I may be wrong.

Does the antibody test even exist yet? I was under the impression it doesn't.

The FDA just approved one, and the company says it will ramp up production fast, but as far as I know it's not available in quantity yet.

https://www.biospace.com/article/releases/20-20-bioresponse-...

The FDA has given states the authority to approve antibody tests on their own.

https://globalbiodefense.com/2020/03/16/fda-pandemic-respons...

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#55

Post by School-Cotton »

drclau wrote: post #24
sjg007 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait until the virus mutates. Then things will really be fun.

I don’t know why you were downvoted. Maybe because of the second sentence? Mutation is a very real problem. After all flu goes through it all the time. That is the main reason why we get flu regularly. Second reason is that the immunity may be temporary.

Flu is not a Coronavirus.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#56

Post by rhn_mk1 »

kabapadum wrote: post #33
_y5hn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two sides of this coin, that are sort of mutually exclusive: 1) On one hand, it's sort of a "competition" to gain "herd immunity". Of course if this is achievable, every country would want this, but not while disrupting civil society. So the measures makes sense for controllable scenarios, if introduction is managable. 2) COVID-19 is a completely new ( "Novela" ) virus. We don't know long-term health impact…

COVID-19 is a completely new (Novela) virus. That's not true. Coronaviruses did exist, and they are not new. //"Me Only"-mantra is unsustainable.// Exactly opposite, we will see in the near future that the government which one destroyed their economy will eat shit in next years.

Coronaviruses did exist, but not this one.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#57

Post by throwaway4787 »

danmaz74 wrote: post #7

I'm an Italian living in the UK, so I've been following both the stats and the debate in Italy (and elsewhere) very closely. My conclusion is that whoever thinks that this problem can be not stopped, but contained to a manageable level without very strict steps is in for a bad surprise. And, given the exponential nature of initial growth, the earlier these steps are adopted, the less harsh they need to be.

If that's any reassurance to you they are observing an inflection in Italy, potentially a sign that the lockdowns have their desired effects. We just need to hold on for a couple weeks before it curves back as in China. And that's discounting the ongoing trials for treatments that could solve this quicker than expected.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#58

Post by goblin89 »

ShorsHammer wrote: post #36

South Korea has virtually no new active cases daily, only 100 deaths after 4 months of exposure and hasn't brought in any laws even close the authoritarian stuff that is going on elsewhere across the planet in the name of covid-19/sars-cov-2 Buyer beware. Undoing laws and measures is a lot harder than enacting them in a "crisis". "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deser…

In Seoul, multiple emergency alerts asking people to keep 2 meter distance and to cancel trips and meetings were pushed to mobile phones for the first time yesterday morning. Pedestrian streets in popular districts are still fairly bustling tonight, even if less crowded given the season.

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#59

Post by lotsofpulp »

drclau wrote: post #24
sjg007 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait until the virus mutates. Then things will really be fun.

I don’t know why you were downvoted. Maybe because of the second sentence? Mutation is a very real problem. After all flu goes through it all the time. That is the main reason why we get flu regularly. Second reason is that the immunity may be temporary.

Influenza is not a coronavirus:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthomyxoviridae

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus

Re: The Virus Can Be Stopped, but Only with Harsh Steps, Experts Say

#60

Post by Proziam »

aquaticsunset wrote: post #35
Proziam wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you're being downvoted, but I don't sense any malice in your post. You're also not incorrect in your assessment, but your scope is a bit limited. There are far more than just undocumented immigrants who can't afford to stay home and will have to do whatever they can do to keep life going for themselves. This is true everywhere, not just the US. The last to comply won't be holding out due to malice or ignorance,…

But the OP is misguided and targeting a beaten down population. What difference does it make if you’re making $7.25/hr as a natural born citizen or an undocumented immigrant? Either way this thing is hurting you hard, and people are going to act like people. It’s really, really misinformed to think that undocumented immigrants are the only ones suffering, and that “good natural born Americans” can all afford to sit i…

People are quick to assume the intent of another. The quickest way to make the point that a non-compliant, but non-malicious population exists is to give an example. OP gave one, but now people seem to assume that because of the (heavily politicized) example given that they've "targeted" a group. Overreactive responses make it difficult to have a serious discussion about all sorts of issues.

OP also hasn't said anything even remotely akin to:

> undocumented immigrants are the only ones suffering, and that “good natural-born Americans” can all afford to sit inside for a few weeks.

It seems intellectually dishonest to make such lofty assumptions based on a post the length of a tweet or two. Imagine if instead of assuming ill-intent we just said 'hey he's right there are people that can't afford to comply...we should consider that in our policy to the benefit of everyone involved...'

The world would be a better place.

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