Levandowski agrees to plea deal over Google secrets • Hacker News Board

Re: Levandowski agrees to plea deal over Google secrets

#51

Post by saghm » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 5:00 AM UTC

earthtourist wrote: post #20

foolfoolz wrote: post #2

great example of how white collar crime does not get punished. “no more than 30 months” for a theft implicated at multi-billion dollar values. that’s even less with good behavior credit

The question in criminal cases should be: how many people's lives were hurt by the crime, and how severely? In this case, no one's life was the slightest bit injured. Uber is most likely too incompetent to be a real threat. Waymo has undoubtedly advanced far from the versions of everything that he copied illegally. It won't damage them at all. If anything, the lawsuit and criminal case were probably more damaging to…

> Uber is most likely too incompetent to be a real threat

I don't necessarily disagree with all of your comment, but I feel like incompetence should not be a factor in determining punishment severity. Being unprofitable should not be a valid defense for illegal behavior.

Re: Levandowski agrees to plea deal over Google secrets

#52

Post by markdown » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 5:01 AM UTC

saghm wrote: post #49

sytelus wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm against this barbaric tradition of putting people in cages for whatever XYZ crimes. I think the isolation of the rest of the society from the criminals is essential but should be done in a much more humane way. For instance, prisons should be a place to learn and develop one's mind with libraries, documentaries, education and tools of creation but still making sure the person cannot contact the rest of the societ…

> For example, a "prison town" may have cafes, restaurants, theaters etc with everything being run by this isolated community which is not allowed to be in contact with the rest What happens if someone commits a crime in a prison town? Double secret prison?

No soup for them!

Re: Levandowski agrees to plea deal over Google secrets

#53

Post by lambdasquirrel » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 5:47 AM UTC

battery_cowboy wrote: post #3

foolfoolz wrote: post #2

great example of how white collar crime does not get punished. “no more than 30 months” for a theft implicated at multi-billion dollar values. that’s even less with good behavior credit

I take a different lesson: when a large company is affected, the small guy gets up to 30 months. When a small-time engineer gets his idea stolen by a big company in a similar way, they have zero recourse. To be clear, I think both should be punished, but the large corp stealing ideas NEVER will.

Well, to nit a point slightly, his comp alone should indicate he was not a small-time engineer. He effectively had a bigger payout that most founders with a semi-successful startup exit.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/03/waymos-uber-lawsuit-reveals-...

Re: Levandowski agrees to plea deal over Google secrets

#54

Post by joshuamorton » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 6:10 AM UTC

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #43

0x00000000 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the indictment and do you know what a plea deal is? Why do you think google is lying about the 14000 files he downloaded? That could easily be proven or disproven and everyone knows it. It’s obvious they just threw him a soft ball on probably the least incriminating file they could to just get some money back rather than dragging the trial on forever then sentencing him to 100 years. But that doesn’t mea…

I do know what a plea is. Legally, this calendar is the only thing he stole. I understand Google made many claims but apparently the evidence was only strong enough for this one minor article to make through the plea negotiations. Now put yourself in this "fucking 40 year old"'s position and think about what it means for a corporation like Google to make these claims. Even if they're false you can't afford to fight t…

> I do know what a plea is. Legally, this calendar is the only thing he stole.

In the criminal trial yes.

> I understand Google made many claims but apparently the evidence was only strong enough for this one minor article to make through the plea negotiations.

Google isn't (officially anyway) involved in this plea deal. It's between levandowski and the DA who is charging him with a crime. Google won 170 million in damages in the civil suit/arbitration.

Re: Levandowski agrees to plea deal over Google secrets

#55

Post by CobrastanJorji » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 6:27 AM UTC

irjustin wrote: post #10

goatherders wrote: post #4

Even if they dont "use" anything he stole, 30 months of someone else's life in jail is a zero price to pay for Uber to get even a small amount of competitive knowledge. Even something like an internal calendar of expected timelines would be super useful and cant be unseen.

I'd argue the opposite that this was extremely expensive for Uber. The legal nightmare which resulted a loss in 0.34% of equity and combined with having to throw away whatever they had[0] before as part of the deal with Google is not cheap at all. Anecdotally, I have engineering friends on the Uber self driving team and they talk about how they are just starting over again and how far behind they are as a result of i…

It's a gamble, though. Say you're Uber's CEO, Travis Kalanick, and you believe 3 things for sure: 1. Uber's completely doomed if self-driving cars show up and Uber doesn't own it, 2. Sexual harassment is a good idea, and 3. Uber's behind the top players in self-driving car research.

Say you believe that there's a 25% chance that this Google guy can get you to the front of the self-driving car race, and there's a 50% chance you'll get caught. Based on those 3 assumptions at the top, this is a worthwhile risk.

Sure, he wouldn't do it again with hindsight, both because it didn't work out and because his board fired him for creating a culture of sexual harassment, but the risk was probably worth it, strategically if not ethically.

Re: Levandowski agrees to plea deal over Google secrets

#56

Post by CobrastanJorji » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 6:32 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #14

After admitting his guilt and serving his time, would you refuse to work with him again? It seems like he was a brilliant guy who made a bad mistake. I don’t think he’s unemployable. Isn’t prison punishment enough? Time is the only irreplaceable resource we have.

I'd hire a guy who was an ex-con, but not if his criminal history related directly to the thing I'm hiring him to do. I'd hire a guy who robbed a bank 20 years ago to design a bridge or build houses. A guy who screwed over his employer, though? No, not if there were any other candidates available.

Re: Levandowski agrees to plea deal over Google secrets

#57

Post by C1sc0cat » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 10:10 AM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #50

s3r3nity wrote: post #47

Curious to hear from those who have been following the details more closely: was there _any_ legal basis to Levandowski's claims? It's easy to write him off as an extremely greedy sociopath, but I wonder if he was walking along some precarious line or "loop-hole" that eventually too many attempts to cross bit him in the butt.

No, there is no legal basis for using corporate resources for personal gain. It's not a gray area, it's a bright line.

No poaching agreements are a bit more of a grey area though

Re: Levandowski agrees to plea deal over Google secrets

#58

Post by michaelt » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 10:55 AM UTC

cjensen wrote: post #5

foolfoolz wrote: post #2

great example of how white collar crime does not get punished. “no more than 30 months” for a theft implicated at multi-billion dollar values. that’s even less with good behavior credit

Is your complaint that his sentence is too light? Or that non-white collar crime is punished too harshly?

foolfoolz is complaining that the sentence is light compared to non-white-collar crimes

For example, if you can get 12 years for shoplifting $40 [1] or life in prison for stealing $153 of video tapes [2] that stands in stark contrast to starting a company with stolen IP and selling it for $680M and getting 2.5 years.

Some people see this as part of a pattern where the justice system, run by upper-middle-class types, is unduly lenient on other upper-middle-class types, or unduly harsh on poor people. They would also point to the likes of Brock Turner who had gone to the same college as the judge sentencing him; and controversial presidential pardons [3] of friends and major donors.

It's not a completely hard-and-fast pattern, of course; Bernie Madoff got a 150 year sentence.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/17/walmart-shop... [2] https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_r... [3] https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/prob...

Re: Levandowski agrees to plea deal over Google secrets

#59

Post by foobar1962 » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 10:56 AM UTC

yoshimato wrote: post #6

foolfoolz wrote: post #2

great example of how white collar crime does not get punished. “no more than 30 months” for a theft implicated at multi-billion dollar values. that’s even less with good behavior credit

30 months is a major punishment for downloading a doc that tracks technical goals and doing nothing with it.

That was the charge that he pleased guilty to for the 30 month jail term deal. It probably wasn't the most significant charge.

Re: Levandowski agrees to plea deal over Google secrets

#60

Post by tyingq » Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 12:13 PM UTC

bosswipe wrote: post #9

foolfoolz wrote: post #2

great example of how white collar crime does not get punished. “no more than 30 months” for a theft implicated at multi-billion dollar values. that’s even less with good behavior credit

Two and half years is a hell of a lot of jail time. I seriously wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Pretty sure he's going to Martha Stewart type powder puff federal facility.

To be sure, there are many hellholes in the US, but he's not going there.