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Tell me why I suck

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Re: Tell me why I suck

#51

Post by notahacker »

sambeau wrote: post #29

Things are both simpler and more complicated in the UK. Simpler because the rules are quite clear (and very fair) and more complex because company managers tend to make up extreme rules that are way beyond what is necessary. Job application disputes are not settled in a standard court, they go to an employment tribunal instead and are decided by one judge and two independent lay-member volunteers (often councillors,…

I've had plenty of feedback from interviews from UK companies without receiving one piece of actionable advice.

To be fair, it was quite clear that I didn't want to work at some of those companies and if I'd have been asked to give them feedback I'd have phrased my disinterest in similarly brief and diplomatic terms which wouldn't have told them much they didn't already know or weren't inclined to disagree strongly with.

Even if the tribunals are inclined to side with the companies, companies' fears are still well placed. A perfectly reasonable "unfortunately we didn't think you had the appropriate experience for the job" can become possible evidence that they were concealing discrimination should the company subesquently hire someone similarly lacking in experience but in every other way perfectly suited to the role. Companies seldom announce their decisions to reject a candidate are based on racism, sexism, homophobia etc even when they are.

Re: Tell me why I suck

#52

Post by twymer »

rexreed wrote: post #18

As a tech employer, I can tell you the top 3 reasons why it's hard to provide the feedback you seek: 1) Many times it's not that you're lacking in any manner, it's just that there's someone that suited the position better. It's like dating - if you reject someone because someone better came into your life, what do you tell the other person? Usually it goes "it's not you, it's me...". 2) Sometimes I don't know what I'…

Usually it goes "it's not you, it's me...".

Yes but in life as in dating, I'd like to know why I'm not a match.

Knowing the posting was inaccurate for what you're looking for is better than wondering why one got turned down for what seemed a perfect fit.

Instead of asking "what went wrong", maybe you might want to ask "is there anyone you can recommend or do you think that something / someone else might be a better fit"?

I really like this idea, I guess I never considered this as a possibility before. Nothing to lose by asking, though.

Re: Tell me why I suck

#53

Post by tintin »

RiderOfGiraffes wrote: post #16
tintin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also tell why the one you hired was successful.

No you can't. The rejected candidate can say "But I can do X Y and Z better than they can!" and now you're in an endless death spiral.

My experience is that a lot of people don't have any problem with it.

It is more friendly to say: "the hired candidate has a lot more experience" than "you lack experience".

The death spiral candidate will try to discuss his rejection anyway.

Re: Tell me why I suck

#54

Post by JoeAltmaier »

tow21 wrote: post #11

Have you tried asking? I've done this in the past with jobs for which I was not accepted. Some were happy to, some weren't, but where they did it was useful. And as an employer now, I'm generally happy to share useful feedback. But I'll usually only bother if the candidate asks me. This is at least partly because - as RiderOfGiraffes alludes to, there are legal issues involved, and I have to think very hard about how…

Friend of mine, statistics phd, interviewing with big-name University for Prof position. In car on way to airport with junior faculty member, asked "What do you think my chances are?"

Junior said "Nil. You are female with kids. Elderly faculty think you will put them before the job, and not pull your weight. They reject all the mothers."

They did indeed reject her, with a polite letter. Now she works at another big University, very successful, students love her, lucky to have her.

So its not always (almost never) about the resume or interview.

Re: Tell me why I suck

#55

Post by sambeau »

notahacker wrote: post #51
sambeau wrote: post #29

Things are both simpler and more complicated in the UK. Simpler because the rules are quite clear (and very fair) and more complex because company managers tend to make up extreme rules that are way beyond what is necessary. Job application disputes are not settled in a standard court, they go to an employment tribunal instead and are decided by one judge and two independent lay-member volunteers (often councillors,…

I've had plenty of feedback from interviews from UK companies without receiving one piece of actionable advice. To be fair, it was quite clear that I didn't want to work at some of those companies and if I'd have been asked to give them feedback I'd have phrased my disinterest in similarly brief and diplomatic terms which wouldn't have told them much they didn't already know or weren't inclined to disagree strongly w…

I think it could benefit companies to ask for feedback from interviewees.

My top interview tip is to always interview the company back. You may end up spending the next 3 or more years there - you have to be sure its a good fit, too.

Re: Tell me why I suck

#56

Post by ams6110 »

twymer wrote: post #52
rexreed wrote: post #18

As a tech employer, I can tell you the top 3 reasons why it's hard to provide the feedback you seek: 1) Many times it's not that you're lacking in any manner, it's just that there's someone that suited the position better. It's like dating - if you reject someone because someone better came into your life, what do you tell the other person? Usually it goes "it's not you, it's me...". 2) Sometimes I don't know what I'…

Usually it goes "it's not you, it's me...". Yes but in life as in dating, I'd like to know why I'm not a match. Knowing the posting was inaccurate for what you're looking for is better than wondering why one got turned down for what seemed a perfect fit. Instead of asking "what went wrong", maybe you might want to ask "is there anyone you can recommend or do you think that something / someone else might be a better f…

I think in many cases, like in relationships, it's intangible. The hired candidate just "clicked" with the interviewer(s). Also mentioned earlier, anyone who has a referral from a current (competent) employee is going to be greatly preferred over any candidate that nobody knows. The first two jobs I had after college I got on my own, everything since then has at least partly involved a referral.

Re: Tell me why I suck

#57

Post by andy_boot »

mkr-hn wrote: post #33
Nitramp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are actually courses/books on how to spot the faux job ads (forced by HR policy, worker's council, ...).

Any recommendations? It would save me a lot of time if I could spend a little money and read a book to save the hours wasted on applying for junk offers.

I think the total time spent reading the book and evaluating the job would be more than knocking out a quick cover letter and sending it off with your CV

Re: Tell me why I suck

#58

Post by ChuckMcM »

wheeliemow wrote: post #39

This is great article. I recently was to an interview with a company and thought the interview went great. They even told me they had been looking for a candidate since August. To my dismay one week after the interview I received a similar email. No reason, just the "we looked at your credentials and those of other applicants and have decided to continue with other applicants". Funny thing is the job is still posted…

One of the things I found interesting about Google's process was that everyone had input on their tracking system. Thus even when a person was a 'good fit' if there was someone in the company who had worked at the same company/time as the candidate, and suggested that the company pass, that carried a huge amount of force.

When ever I recommended someone I would check to see what the other folks that knew them added into the 'mix' if there was someone who clearly had an axe to grind (hey it happens) I'd try to talk to them one on one and figure out if it was a 'real' issue or just a past injustice that was motivating the down vote.

Sometimes it was warranted, there are good people who just don't fit with a company's culture. Sometimes it wasn't. One manager suggested that even if it was just sour grapes between the candidate and the employee it was a 'good signal' because the candidate burned their bridges willingly. (Although I'm a firm believer that people mature and change over time, not everyone subscribes to that philosophy either)

Be nice, be courteous, if they turn you down move on.

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