Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: First hire offered to work part-time – what should I do?

news.ycombinator.com

51–60 of 106 posts

Re: Ask HN: First hire offered to work part-time – what should I do?

#51

Controversial opinion but learned through experience the hard way here, repeatedly proven, anyone that you feel "like lack of commitment from him could possibly influence our culture in a negative way", just pass (at least until you have product market fit or a repeatable business running). As soon as shit hits the fan, they will either leave or drop performance, and you will have to let them go. In your case, I thin…

Fellow founder here. I think I agree with the gist of what you write, but I disagree that a part-time commitment is a good indicator of the level of emotional commitment.

Passion is important, and there's a huge spectrum between "passion as an excuse to get people to work many hours without compensating them" and the bill-by-the-hour contractor attitude. You don't want your first employees to be anywhere near the right of that spectrum. Basically, you want them to proudly wear the company logo t-shirt. But this is perfectly possible without driving yourself into a burnout.

While I agree with many commenters here that way too many startups work their team too hard for absolutely no benefit to anybody, I do think that employees of small startups can be expected to have said startup at top thing on their minds, bordering family etc.

This information is missing from the OP's question. There's a world of difference between an applicant going "oh, hm yeah I can do some work for you but only 3 days a week because I'm actually focused on my side project and I hope it becomes a proper startup someday" and "woa that sounds awesome, I'm all in! but I don't want to work more than 3 days because I've a couple of hobbies / open source projects / whatever that I like to keep time for". In the first scenario, the engineer might be writing hours for you, but actually thinking about their other thing at the same time. They won't be super productive, and they'd especially not be all too creative.

Like you, I'd never recommend that a startup hire someone who doesn't have the success of said startup at top of their mind (again, possibly bordering family matters). But I disagree with your suggestion that the amount of hours/days committed is a good indicator of that. Part-time is the future, folks, accept it, embrace it.

Re: Ask HN: First hire offered to work part-time – what should I do?

#52
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or, the feeling of wanting to do high quality work wherever you are? We have a word that literally translates as "professional pride." Now I'm not sure it has the right vibe in English, but it captures the idea that you do high quality work and you wouldn't do a sloppy job, even if the job sucks. For example, I would like such a plumber, because I know they will be careful not to make a mess, and they will clean up…

> We have a word that literally translates as "professional pride." Where are you from and what is the word?

Finland. "Ammattiylpeys."

Re: Ask HN: First hire offered to work part-time – what should I do?

#53
post #20
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> feeling of wanting to do high quality work wherever you are? I guess that when you state that, you assume relevant compensation. But often companies put that in job description when they search for „people who want to do high quality work wherever they are”, literally. In worst cases they end up exploiting more naive or less experienced workers.

True, but you don't know which type of company it is until you talk to them or do some research right? I wouldn't want to just assume that when so many good companies use that word as well.

> I wouldn't want to just assume that when so many good companies use that word as well.

Name three.

I'm yet to see a single company expecting "passion" that would be doing something worthwhile, or even something one can actually be passionate about.

Re: Ask HN: First hire offered to work part-time – what should I do?

#54
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "passion" is a huge red flag word for me. In the same realm as "ninja" or "rockstar."

What do you all call the feeling around enjoying the work you do because of the mission and/or technical challenge and/or team? Or, the feeling of wanting to do high quality work wherever you are? Generally, I've never worried about that being called passion.

That is passion, the issue is when the reason companies care about it is b/c they want to exploit it i.e. pay people less.

So, passion is a a good thing, assuming it doesn't (negatively) interfere with compensation. If you want passion, pay for it. If you don't want to pay for it, you don't want passion - you want leverage.

Re: Ask HN: First hire offered to work part-time – what should I do?

#55
Just a quick thought, since I thoroughly recognize myself in your former workfriend. You may have negociated his pay below the level where he can comfortably cover mortgage and current expenses.

Like many others commented, asking for an employee to be passionate is a real problem.

You mentioned thinking with heads over hearts. Very good idea, I would say follow through on it and ask for professionalism instead of passion. Offer a higher hourly rate during the first 2-3 weeks, on condition that the person work full-time and that everything should be automated to the hilt and documented thoroughly. Starting on the fourth week, show your new potential hires how tight of a ship you are running, some will be excited to join and at that point you can better negociate their pay because you have something to offer that most developers want.

As a side note, the way I have solved on my end the problem your former workfriend is having, was by making the hourly rate a sliding scale (145 in exchange for working 45 hours a week, 125 when working 25 hrs/wk, you get the idea). I am personally convinced this kind of system will work for you as well since is makes transparent the tradeoff between high development velocity and judicious budgeting.

One last thing I want to point out that most developers intuitively recognize: having worked in a large number of environments, huge and small, with distinct engineering approaches / team dynamics is a huge boost to most developer profiles. Working on more than one project every week and being exposed to all that variety is worthwhile, for me at least, when I can't charge my full rate.

Re: Ask HN: First hire offered to work part-time – what should I do?

#56
post #26
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you all call the feeling around enjoying the work you do because of the mission and/or technical challenge and/or team? Or, the feeling of wanting to do high quality work wherever you are? Generally, I've never worried about that being called passion.

> Or, the feeling of wanting to do high quality work wherever you are? We have a word that literally translates as "professional pride." Now I'm not sure it has the right vibe in English, but it captures the idea that you do high quality work and you wouldn't do a sloppy job, even if the job sucks. For example, I would like such a plumber, because I know they will be careful not to make a mess, and they will clean up…

Sounds like "conscientious"

Re: Ask HN: First hire offered to work part-time – what should I do?

#57
I don't think you're giving enough neccessary information here. Is his role just chunk out the code, help with backlog and fix some bugs? Or he's going to be responsible for making strategic tech decisions and then communicating with entire future tech team about them? Obviously the latter is a much worse fit for a part-time, low-commitment employee.

What about these features he'll have to compete - are they well-defined? Has he done similar things dozens of times before, or will he have to research it as he goes together with everybody else?

Re: Ask HN: First hire offered to work part-time – what should I do?

#58

Controversial opinion but learned through experience the hard way here, repeatedly proven, anyone that you feel "like lack of commitment from him could possibly influence our culture in a negative way", just pass (at least until you have product market fit or a repeatable business running). As soon as shit hits the fan, they will either leave or drop performance, and you will have to let them go. In your case, I thin…

Fellow founder here. I think I agree with the gist of what you write, but I disagree that a part-time commitment is a good indicator of the level of emotional commitment. Passion is important, and there's a huge spectrum between "passion as an excuse to get people to work many hours without compensating them" and the bill-by-the-hour contractor attitude. You don't want your first employees to be anywhere near the rig…

100% agreed, that's what I meant by "I think the issue is not about part time, but the commitment itself". We very often try to rationalize things that are more "felt" (sense of commitment) to more tangible things.

In this case, the author might feel that the person is not committed, and might attribute it to the part time as way to reason/explain that feeling that the other person isn't committed. Chances are, they would most likely feel the same if the person was full time. If the person was highly committed, they wouldn't even start to rationalize this way about part time, and it'd be a no-brainer decision to hire them and make it work.

Re: Ask HN: First hire offered to work part-time – what should I do?

#59
I can understand why you guys are worried about this but what is the problem with trying it and seeing how it goes - you could also negotiate with him about different time schedules and maybe a small amount of time on his days off should it be necessary.

I have no problem with the word passionate but in the end will you be happy with this person's contribution for what you are paying them. If not you need to let them go during their probation/as soon as possible.

You really have nothing to lose and you probably get a well rested developer who can work hard for the 3 days. I would go for it but set boundaries and expectations - for example I would prefer to have him in full time for the first 3 weeks of every month say rather than this odd schedule.

Post reply on HN