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GitLab Handbook

about.gitlab.com

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Re: GitLab Handbook

#51

Post by GitLabWatchDog »

MediumD wrote: post #8
nbulka wrote: post #7

I applied for an Engineering role at Gitlab. I didn't make it past the initial interview screening and politely asked for feedback in order to grow professionally. I never heard back from the recruiter or company after that yet their handbook says: "If the candidate asks for further feedback, only offer frank feedback. This is hard, but it is part of our company values." I always wondered if it was because I question…

My guess would be that it's very easy to write down a value, but much harder to actually practice that value consistently.

Ding! Ding! Ding! You hit the nail on the hammer. They write it all down but do you really think anyone actually reads or follows the handbook? It has to be thousands of pages long! It is all for show so they can write blogs about it and try to impress the public with their so called “radical transparency.”

It is obvious by all the recent news articles and information leaking out from current and past employees that it is just a facade. It won’t be long until they are fully exposed and we see they are just another greedy startup like WeWork or Away with some crazy CEO putting on a show for the public while putting fear into the employees.

Re: GitLab Handbook

#52

Post by austhrow743 »

ljm wrote: post #36
leipert wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I have worked a bit on our calculator in the past (technical implementation). Some clarifications, best of my knowledge, currently on mobile: It would be impractical to calculate all the location factors in the world, and in your case it would be calculated. I agree with you that this is less than optimal, as it might stop people from applying if that data is missing. So this is an area where we could im…

I would like to ask why you feel a job should be rewarded differently based on location when the deliverables and other gains from the employee are the same? E.g I don’t see why I should take a pay cut moving from the US to the EU. Looking at Basecamp, they give everyone the US salary and they arrange their culture around remote work that way. Note how it doesn’t even work this way between countries, through the ‘mos…

It allows them to capture extra value from employing people in areas with less competition from employers.

They're not going to say that because a lot of people have odd ideas about compensation that they're very emotionally attached to. There are people that would take a job with them for $X when told its about cost of living fairness that would not take the job for $X if they were told it's about capturing surplus value.

This is the same reason it's dangerous to share your compensation with coworkers as an employee. They don't just all say thank you for telling me and negotiate for a higher salary while acting discreetly with regard to your conversation, or start job searching; some will get real mad and irrational and there's a very good chance you'll be caught up in the fallout.

Re: GitLab Handbook

#54

Post by onionisafruit »

austhrow743 wrote: post #52
ljm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to ask why you feel a job should be rewarded differently based on location when the deliverables and other gains from the employee are the same? E.g I don’t see why I should take a pay cut moving from the US to the EU. Looking at Basecamp, they give everyone the US salary and they arrange their culture around remote work that way. Note how it doesn’t even work this way between countries, through the ‘mos…

It allows them to capture extra value from employing people in areas with less competition from employers. They're not going to say that because a lot of people have odd ideas about compensation that they're very emotionally attached to. There are people that would take a job with them for $X when told its about cost of living fairness that would not take the job for $X if they were told it's about capturing surplus…

Piling on here...”pay me more because I live in San Francisco” carries about as much weight as “pay me more because I’ve got twelve kids have to pay alimony to two ex wives.”. It’s one thing when there is an office in San Francisco where you need to show up most days. When you are working from a spare bedroom, it really doesn’t matter where that bedroom is.

Re: GitLab Handbook

#55

Post by nine_k »

nbulka wrote: post #7

I applied for an Engineering role at Gitlab. I didn't make it past the initial interview screening and politely asked for feedback in order to grow professionally. I never heard back from the recruiter or company after that yet their handbook says: "If the candidate asks for further feedback, only offer frank feedback. This is hard, but it is part of our company values." I always wondered if it was because I question…

Our company hires a lot. I once asked if we can give people feedback if we don't make an offer, to help them learn.

I was told that this leaves more room for a discrimination suit. While the risk is low, the downside in time, money, and bad PR is significant. There's no upside for the company, except feeling good, in giving honest feedback to a candidate, though. So, strictly no feedback.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Re: GitLab Handbook

#56

Post by wyclif »

scaryclam wrote: post #26
sdesol wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read they don't hire junior people, which might explain why you haven't heard anything. As somebody that has written a search engine, I would suggest you implement one and make it accessible to overcome the junior title...if that is the case in your situation.

Blanket rejection of juniors is pretty short sighted. Not offering any rejection at all is even worse. If you're not hiring juniors, say so. If you're not hiring juniors and one applies, send a polite response to say "Oh hey, thanks but we're after more senior people, but please try again in a year or so!". There's no good reason for a non-response, and when it's in their handbook and they still don't do it, a big re…

Agreed, but isn't the point of labelling an open position 'junior' or 'senior' so that candidates will know whether it's appropriate to apply? Everybody surely knows what these terms mean, right? And if it isn't in the job title, then why can't they put it in the job description so they don't get junior experience people applying for senior jobs?

Re: GitLab Handbook

#57

Post by bad_user »

onionisafruit wrote: post #54
austhrow743 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It allows them to capture extra value from employing people in areas with less competition from employers. They're not going to say that because a lot of people have odd ideas about compensation that they're very emotionally attached to. There are people that would take a job with them for $X when told its about cost of living fairness that would not take the job for $X if they were told it's about capturing surplus…

Piling on here...”pay me more because I live in San Francisco” carries about as much weight as “pay me more because I’ve got twelve kids have to pay alimony to two ex wives.”. It’s one thing when there is an office in San Francisco where you need to show up most days. When you are working from a spare bedroom, it really doesn’t matter where that bedroom is.

It does matter, because payment isn't necessarily a reflection of delivered value, payment follows a supply and demand curve.

If you don't pay SF rates to somebody living in a SF bedroom, then you can't hire that person, unless they accept leaving money on the table and nobody wants that, especially because wages usually reflect the cost of living in the area.

So if you want to pay everyone the same wage, you either stop hiring from SF altogether or you give everyone SF salaries.

The later option isn't feasible because if you pay everyone SF wages, then you might as well open an SF office and hire only from SF. Is SF overcrowded by companies? Plenty of tech hubs to choose from, you only need a decent university nearby and developers don't need to be in the same location as the sales team.

As a matter of fact one reason companies hire outside of big tech hubs like SF is cost efficiency. Because remote work has disadvantages, like poor communications and the need for employees that can self manage well. You take cost savings off the table and remote work is much less appealing.

Doesn't matter where they bedroom is?

That's a socialist concept. Not in the world we live in.

Re: GitLab Handbook

#58

Post by tjr225 »

dsetaos wrote: post #41
Tade0 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I applied twice with a year between the two attempts: First time I was rejected after the first interview because they found somebody better suited for the role(my lack of Ruby experience was likely a factor) - that at least was the response I got. Second time I was rejected outright - the reason given was that for people with more than five years of experience, they expected candidates to spend more than two years i…

Not to be mean but I'm sceptical of CVs like that too. I expect people to stick around for a while. I need to know I can depend on them not to jump ship at the slightest hiccup. Unless they can give me a reasonable explanation for the job hopping I'm not going to take the risk. If I want mercenaries I'll just get some freelancers.

I'll give this an upvote as someone with a resume/CV that would resemble a job hopper. I am skeptical of people like this(even though I myself could be construed as a job hopper) in interviews.

However in some cases its just hustle. I've gone from state government -> retail -> cloud automation. Every step of the way was a 50% raise. I can't turn those raises down and the previous employers simply didn't have the budget to counter offer...

Re: GitLab Handbook

#59

Post by JimDabell »

bad_user wrote: post #57
onionisafruit wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piling on here...”pay me more because I live in San Francisco” carries about as much weight as “pay me more because I’ve got twelve kids have to pay alimony to two ex wives.”. It’s one thing when there is an office in San Francisco where you need to show up most days. When you are working from a spare bedroom, it really doesn’t matter where that bedroom is.

It does matter, because payment isn't necessarily a reflection of delivered value, payment follows a supply and demand curve. If you don't pay SF rates to somebody living in a SF bedroom, then you can't hire that person, unless they accept leaving money on the table and nobody wants that, especially because wages usually reflect the cost of living in the area. So if you want to pay everyone the same wage, you either…

> So if you want to pay everyone the same wage, you either stop hiring from SF altogether or you give everyone SF salaries.

The first option is a perfectly reasonable position to take. There's less than a million people in SF. There's over seven billion people everywhere else. The people in SF aren't magical; people outside of SF can do the job just as well.

> if you pay everyone SF wages, then you might as well open an SF office and hire only from SF.

This statement only makes sense if the only thing you are considering is cost. Even if the cost is identical, it's still advantageous to hire remotely. It's easier to hire, there's a much larger pool of candidates, it lets you hire people who would otherwise be inaccessible to you for other reasons, it increases loyalty, there's no commute draining people's energy, etc.

> Because remote work has disadvantages, like poor communications

In my experience, fully remote teams are much better at communicating than mixed or onsite-only teams. Why do you think remote work brings poor communications?

Re: GitLab Handbook

#60

Post by piokoch »

nbulka wrote: post #7

I applied for an Engineering role at Gitlab. I didn't make it past the initial interview screening and politely asked for feedback in order to grow professionally. I never heard back from the recruiter or company after that yet their handbook says: "If the candidate asks for further feedback, only offer frank feedback. This is hard, but it is part of our company values." I always wondered if it was because I question…

Nowadays (almost) no one will give you post-interview feedback. The risk of being sued for "discrimination" because of whatever made-up reason is just too high. In the World when more and more people belong to unknown 3 months earlier "oppressed minority" nobody wants to take chances.

The funniest story I read the other day on HN was about some company which needed to fire 10% of their employees. After consulting with the lawyers, consulting company they have hired to help in the process they decided to take a contractor, who would not have any knowledge about employees. That contractor's only job was to randomly select 10% of people to fire. Simple, cheap, safe, no risk of being sued, maybe they have fired some people who would be worth to keep (if they really wish they could hire them back anyway).

This is the sad World we live in.

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