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Turtleocracy

notion.so

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Re: Turtleocracy

#51

Post by wk0 »

keiferski wrote: post #26

This seems like an overly-complex derivation of Isaiah Berlin's concept of The Hedgehog and the Fox : Berlin...divides writers and thinkers into two categories: hedgehogs, who view the world through the lens of a single defining idea (examples given include Plato, Lucretius, Dante Alighieri, Blaise Pascal, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Friedrich Nietzsche, Henrik Ibsen, Marcel Proust and Fernand…

Is the Hedgehog and the Fox just an overly-complex (but more concrete) derivation of monism vs pluralism?

Re: Turtleocracy

#52

Post by munk-a »

tomp wrote: post #25
siphium wrote: post #12

I love notion as a tool but it seems like one of those things people will be crying about in a few years if we continue to put all this valuable information solely in their hands. (yes i know you can export but it doesn't preserve the awesome format they have which is really the point)

Really? Browsing through this site a bit completely turned me off Notion... like, the page is so slow to load, as if the rendering was happening on the client side, not the server side... Can't they just generate & cache the HTML and serve it? Edit: they also hijack Ctrl-click which I consider extra shitty and non-user-friendly.

They also hijack the arrow keys, which is basically heresy.

Re: Turtleocracy

#53

Post by setr »

codezero wrote: post #45
setr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However in most usages, there is no actual language benefit -- I doubt the animal emojis will actually help understanding of this article for any non-english speaker. In fact, I doubt you could really express anything beyond the simplest concepts with emojis in a language-agnostic fashion. Actually I'll go a step further: the idea of emoji as a language agnostic writing system is dumb. It's equivalent to pictograms,…

Bummer you're being downvoted, though I don't totally agree with what you said - I think it makes sense. I think the emojis in theory could aid in machine translation - that is - if the machine translation has some ambiguity, maybe the emoji could help, then again, I bet animal names and the concepts that an emoji can convey are the easy part of translation, so I guess I've convinced myself you probably are right. Wi…

Really there's only one real usecase for emojis.. to add flair. ʕノ•ᴥ•ʔノ ︵ ┻━┻

They're not a tool. They're for fun. It's their original purpose, and it's what they do best, and it's not at all clear to me that we need to pretend they can do anything more -- fun is sufficient justification for their existence.

The only real problem is that most emoji character sets don't properly optimize for that. They pretend they're far too important to simply be fun, and they instead become fairly ugly "realistic" depictions of whatever they're representing. ASCII art is somehow still dramatically more appealing, despite (or perhaps because of) emojis having much more freedom. Or actually more likely, it's because the only people who get to draw this stuff are the BigCo's, and they are not.. fun.

I mean hell, the most basic ASCII emoji (smiley :) is still better than Apple's emoji

Re: Turtleocracy

#56

Post by seltzered_ »

codezero wrote: post #8

What even is this? Why does it seem to lead to a paid $2000 course? [0] What is the goal, and who is involved? It seems very high minded and deep on the surface, but what are the expected outcomes and timelines of this, system? [0] https://www.notion.so/HS101-Deluxe-9c92efe621a04d2886e2986ce...

I think this was shared on HN without context.

This work was started by Joe Edelman, whose been a part of some of the efforts to help people working in different domains design things with less toxic/addictive aspects (e.g. tech, social networking companies). He arguably prototyped and called for action now being done from bigcos in their “digital wellbeing” and “screen time” efforts.

See http://nxhx.org , try reading some of his earlier essays.

Re: Turtleocracy

#57

Post by m463 »

wk0 wrote: post #51
keiferski wrote: post #26

This seems like an overly-complex derivation of Isaiah Berlin's concept of The Hedgehog and the Fox : Berlin...divides writers and thinkers into two categories: hedgehogs, who view the world through the lens of a single defining idea (examples given include Plato, Lucretius, Dante Alighieri, Blaise Pascal, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Friedrich Nietzsche, Henrik Ibsen, Marcel Proust and Fernand…

Is the Hedgehog and the Fox just an overly-complex (but more concrete) derivation of monism vs pluralism?

I have to think of: "there are two types of people in the world - those who divide the world up into two types of people, and those that don't"

Re: Turtleocracy

#58

Post by codezero »

setr wrote: post #53
codezero wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bummer you're being downvoted, though I don't totally agree with what you said - I think it makes sense. I think the emojis in theory could aid in machine translation - that is - if the machine translation has some ambiguity, maybe the emoji could help, then again, I bet animal names and the concepts that an emoji can convey are the easy part of translation, so I guess I've convinced myself you probably are right. Wi…

Really there's only one real usecase for emojis.. to add flair. ʕノ•ᴥ•ʔノ ︵ ┻━┻ They're not a tool. They're for fun. It's their original purpose, and it's what they do best, and it's not at all clear to me that we need to pretend they can do anything more -- fun is sufficient justification for their existence. The only real problem is that most emoji character sets don't properly optimize for that. They pretend they're…

I don't think of things as so fixed. I think anything that is "for X" can become "for Y" if it's used creatively enough, so we'll see :)

Re: Turtleocracy

#60

Post by setr »

codezero wrote: post #58
setr wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really there's only one real usecase for emojis.. to add flair. ʕノ•ᴥ•ʔノ ︵ ┻━┻ They're not a tool. They're for fun. It's their original purpose, and it's what they do best, and it's not at all clear to me that we need to pretend they can do anything more -- fun is sufficient justification for their existence. The only real problem is that most emoji character sets don't properly optimize for that. They pretend they're…

I don't think of things as so fixed. I think anything that is "for X" can become "for Y" if it's used creatively enough, so we'll see :)

I'm not thinking of it as "fixed" so much as written languages do most other potential jobs better/clearer/faster than emojis. It's not sufficiently complex/composable enough to pose as a real challenger for expression.

Any useful utility for emoji will be at best in addition to written language, not in replacement of it.

And the major blocker is definitely the lack of composability; you have a very strict and very limited set of options to work with (and without composition, the rule "limitation breeds creativity" doesn't apply), so I have little hope for significant creativity to appear

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