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Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

theguardian.com

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Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#51

Post by bitL »

austinjp wrote: post #48
bitL wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7 days fasting (electrolytes-only) gives me a week-long euphoria afterwards, but days 6-7 show some ugly symptoms of previous diseases, so persevering those is a bit tricky. It also leads to 10-12lb weight loss.

> days 6-7 show some ugly symptoms of previous diseases Could you describe this? I'm not sure what it means.

I started to feel some past problems in e.g. neck area from some botched gym exercises, inside head where I had often sinusitis problems, some left leg issues etc. They seemed to escalate quite a bit, to the point of pain, I was on the verge of breaking the fast but I kept going, then on day 7 all those symptoms disappeared and I haven't experienced them since my last long fast. Not sure if they were of physical or neural (memory?) origin.

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#52

Post by Arelius »

anonymfus wrote: post #28
DataWorker wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Identifying cancer doesn’t necessitate removal but point taken.

Also knowing about cancer decreases quality of life by itself.

While I agree in part I think the truth is it's more nuanced. Almost uniformly cancer causes stress, saddness and emotional volatility that would not be there otherwise. I have seen it can increase other quality of life factors. Deciding to live in the moment, increase family bonds. Spend more time doing travel and experiences with loved ones. That combined with hope and knowledge of better outcomes I think means that we should consider this with a bit more nuance.

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#53

Post by Arelius »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #20

My friend 40 years young died of cancer yesterday. Fuck Cancer. I know this doesn't add much to the conversation. My apologies.

Hey, maybe it doesn't contribute much to the conversation. But it's a super rough thing, and dealing with your grief in the ways you are able to is super important. And as long as you're not taking it out on other people, which you clearly are not in this comment, I figure it's a good thing.

It's always amazes me when such an awful thing happens how the world keeps on spinning, when it really feels like it should just not be able to, but maybe there is ultimately some comfort to be found in that.

Anyways, I really have no idea what you're going through, the loss of any relationship is a very individual experience, but you have my deepest sympathies, I really do feel for your loss.

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#54

Post by tartoran »

bitL wrote: post #49
tartoran wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the second day I am the "smelliest", so it's best to have that one over the weekend when I don't have to be around other people. I've never done a 7 day fast and before I do I'd like to be better informed. What do you mean when you say the smelliest? What does it smell like? Is there some kind of smell throughout the fast? Thank you

Smell is like when you don't wash yourself for a week, quite unpleasant. It's gone on day 3, but on day 2 I am rather staying alone. Then from day 3 you might suffer from bad breath due to ketosis, regular oral hygiene is important when around other people.

Wow. I haven't not washed myself for a week but I imagine. Does showering more frequently help? I heard about the oral hygiene during the fast before. I am basically interested in doing a fast like this but am not sure if I could go to work if I smell unpleasantly but as you said I could probably start in such a way that the 2nd and 3rd days fall on a weekend. Thanks again!

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#55

Post by bitL »

tartoran wrote: post #54
bitL wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smell is like when you don't wash yourself for a week, quite unpleasant. It's gone on day 3, but on day 2 I am rather staying alone. Then from day 3 you might suffer from bad breath due to ketosis, regular oral hygiene is important when around other people.

Wow. I haven't not washed myself for a week but I imagine. Does showering more frequently help? I heard about the oral hygiene during the fast before. I am basically interested in doing a fast like this but am not sure if I could go to work if I smell unpleasantly but as you said I could probably start in such a way that the 2nd and 3rd days fall on a weekend. Thanks again!

I'd recommend starting on Friday, going through initial crisis on Friday/Saturday (caffeine/tea/sugar withdrawal), then from day 3-4 you should start feeling great (literally). Day 6 might be a bit weird so plan some lighter work around that time.

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#56

Post by agumonkey »

bitL wrote: post #26
agumonkey wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what kind of activities do you do during the fast ? normal work life or retreat / reading ?

First 3 days normal stuff including intense HIIT training, then I try to relax in my spare time for the remaining 4 days (normal business). On the first day I might suffer from a slight headache if I was used to a lot of caffeine/sugar. On the second day I am the "smelliest", so it's best to have that one over the weekend when I don't have to be around other people.

HIIT + fast .. that's a first. How old are you ? 20 ?

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#57

Post by bitL »

agumonkey wrote: post #56
bitL wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First 3 days normal stuff including intense HIIT training, then I try to relax in my spare time for the remaining 4 days (normal business). On the first day I might suffer from a slight headache if I was used to a lot of caffeine/sugar. On the second day I am the "smelliest", so it's best to have that one over the weekend when I don't have to be around other people.

HIIT + fast .. that's a first. How old are you ? 20 ?

I wanted to know myself better, how much I can do and if fasting affects my athletic performance. I did my 3x full-effort HIIT in a row each day and even went climbing steep mountains on a bike on days 2-3 during my first 3 day electrolytes-only fast. The second climb I had to abort in the middle of the climb due to "losing vision", i.e. I perceived my vision was deteriorating in an all-out effort (like when you overdo it with HIIT).

I read some study mentioning that HIIT during fasting helps to keep muscles from breaking down as muscles start being utilized at around day 4 to synthesize glycogen from proteins once liver storage is depleted, so I keep doing it, though days 4-7 only one series a day.

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#58

Post by bobbiechen »

rtny4821 wrote: post #11
melling wrote: post #4

According to Craig Venter, early detection is what we need to eliminate cancer: https://youtu.be/iUqgTYbkHP8?t=15m37s

Early detection is what the industry wants so they can improve their 5-year survival stats. And of course increase the total addressable market for conventional treatment options

Scott Alexander has an interesting blog post about this:

Official statistics say we are winning the War on Cancer. Cancer incidence rates, mortality rates, and five-year-survival rates have generally been moving in the right direction over the past few decades.

More skeptical people offer an alternate narrative.

[...]

Suppose a certain cancer is untreatable and will kill you in ten years. If it’s always discovered after seven years, five-year-survival-rate will be 0%. If it’s always discovered after two years, five-year-survival-rate will be 100%. Better screening can shift the percent of cases discovered after seven years vs. two years, and so shift the five-year-survival rate, but the same number of people will be dying of cancer as ever.

This post tries to figure out which narrative is more accurate.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/08/01/cancer-progress-much-m...

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#59

Post by d1zzy »

bitL wrote: post #15
foxyv wrote: post #10

Lately I've been doing 7 day fasts two times a year mostly to reduce visceral fat and reduce my chance of type 2 diabetes. However a lot of science is pointing to it being a good way to reduce cancer risk. Nothing definitive, but it's nice to think I may be helping my body fight possible cancer too. Maybe I will catch some of these things early during these phases where the genes are present but the cancer hasn't beg…

7 days fasting (electrolytes-only) gives me a week-long euphoria afterwards, but days 6-7 show some ugly symptoms of previous diseases, so persevering those is a bit tricky. It also leads to 10-12lb weight loss.

Hmm, this seems dangerous or maybe unique to each individual.

In the past I've had low blood sugar issues (started shaking and got splitting headache) because I forgot to eat for 24h or so and worked long hours, it wasn't a nice experience and I most certainly wouldn't want to repeat that on purpose by fasting. In addition to that, I often "bonk" on longer bike rides (don't eat sufficiently) and do intensive cardio exercise 6 hours a week. I have a BMI around 22 (used to be lower but hey, I'm not getting any younger..).

So do you think this is something anyone can/should engage in? How do you decide if your body can safely engage in multiday fasting like that?

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#60

Post by bitL »

d1zzy wrote: post #59
bitL wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7 days fasting (electrolytes-only) gives me a week-long euphoria afterwards, but days 6-7 show some ugly symptoms of previous diseases, so persevering those is a bit tricky. It also leads to 10-12lb weight loss.

Hmm, this seems dangerous or maybe unique to each individual. In the past I've had low blood sugar issues (started shaking and got splitting headache) because I forgot to eat for 24h or so and worked long hours, it wasn't a nice experience and I most certainly wouldn't want to repeat that on purpose by fasting. In addition to that, I often "bonk" on longer bike rides (don't eat sufficiently) and do intensive cardio e…

I don't know frankly. I was surprised it was so easy for me, but let's say first day I get headaches which I attribute to caffeine/sugar withdrawal, maybe that's your case as well. Drinking 1 liter of water quickly often resolves that though. It's possible you are actually dehydrated as most water comes from food and not drinks, so if you continue drinking like you are used to, you end up with insufficient water.
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