Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

people.mozilla.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 89 posts

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#51

Post by chc »

profitbaron wrote: post #50
chc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is pitching IE 9 as, basically, "Hey guys, we finally caught up! We now offer an awesome HTML5alicious browsing experience, so y'all can stop switching to Firefox and come back over here!" This is Mozilla's return salvo. It's about keeping their message out there.

The way it is appearing is that Mozilla are scared of IE especially when you consider where the product has evolved from IE6. Additionally, it needs to be said that whilst IE9 may be lacking some HTML5 and CSS3 features that Firefox 4 supports that HTML5 standards won't be completed until 2014, and Mircosoft will have its IE product fully supporting HTML5 by then. I'm a firefox user but I still believe that Mozilla h…

I think Mozilla is worried that people will accept IE 9. If Microsoft's pitch takes hold in people's minds, the push for Firefox will lose steam.

And all of this "HTML5 standards won't be completed until 2014" talk is kind of a semantic game. That fallacious concept is why Ian Hickson is trying to move away from the unrealistic notion of a "totally finished standard." In practice, most of the stuff Firefox implements is already nailed down. IE is unquestionably lagging.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#52

Post by phatbyte »

The funny thing is, while as a web developer I hate with all my guts fighting IE standards(?), I also hate how Firefox (yes even version 4) is a memory hog. It's unbearable to work with it consuming 700mb to 1Gb of memory, with just a few tabs and firebug on.

Chrome(webkit) on the other side, wins both of these two combined any time of day.

Mozilla, you have come a long away, you created history when you came out with Firefox, you destroyed IE user base back in the days, and in Europe you are now the number one top browser. However, please stop comparing yourself to other browsers and work on your own issues.

Point being is, I love FF (although I'm not using it lately), but I'm hating how cocky they are becoming.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#53

Post by rbanffy »

mmazing wrote: post #35
acabal wrote: post #30

I'm still not sure what the point of all this is. Any developer worth their salt already knows that IE9 is more or less a small step forward but still far short of what it needs to be and of what FF/Chrome have accomplished ages ago. Any non-technical user won't be reading this article and won't give a damn about IE vs. FF vs. Chrome, as long as their internets work. Why keep up the pissing match? Who are they talkin…

The point is that Microsoft has been terrible at this since 1999. They consistently do their own thing instead of going with standards, and they are always behind the curve. They seem to be trying to catch up with standards but have been unable to make any sort of impressive progress. To be honest, if they've put five years into it and are still so far behind, they need to fire some people. Does anyone actually consi…

> To be honest, if they've put five years into it and are still so far behind, they need to fire some people.

You are assuming Microsoft wants to adhere to standards. I find it more likely their strategy is to fragment the market because the day web applications become the norm, as opposed to desktop applications, they become OS-independent and Microsoft will have its main advantage (the Windows software ecosystem) negated.

They won't allow that.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#54

Post by rbanffy »

acabal wrote: post #39
mmazing wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that Microsoft has been terrible at this since 1999. They consistently do their own thing instead of going with standards, and they are always behind the curve. They seem to be trying to catch up with standards but have been unable to make any sort of impressive progress. To be honest, if they've put five years into it and are still so far behind, they need to fire some people. Does anyone actually consi…

Exactly... you, and every other serious developer. That IE is garbage is obvious to anybody who's done web development for more than a month. So why is Mozilla even bothering with these technical articles? IE lost to developers years ago, and IE9 won't change that. I guess I'm just confused as to why this article, and the other similar ones from this past week, are even news.

> So why is Mozilla even bothering with these technical articles?

Because they need to educate the clueless who decide to make their internal web applications IE-dependent. Making an internal web app IE-only is one of the most common and crippling mistakes corporate IT makes.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#55

Post by Peaker »

acabal wrote: post #30

I'm still not sure what the point of all this is. Any developer worth their salt already knows that IE9 is more or less a small step forward but still far short of what it needs to be and of what FF/Chrome have accomplished ages ago. Any non-technical user won't be reading this article and won't give a damn about IE vs. FF vs. Chrome, as long as their internets work. Why keep up the pissing match? Who are they talkin…

Not all technically-inclined people or even developers do any web-related work at all. I've learned from this.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#56

Post by nailer »

rbanffy wrote: post #53
mmazing wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that Microsoft has been terrible at this since 1999. They consistently do their own thing instead of going with standards, and they are always behind the curve. They seem to be trying to catch up with standards but have been unable to make any sort of impressive progress. To be honest, if they've put five years into it and are still so far behind, they need to fire some people. Does anyone actually consi…

> To be honest, if they've put five years into it and are still so far behind, they need to fire some people. You are assuming Microsoft wants to adhere to standards. I find it more likely their strategy is to fragment the market because the day web applications become the norm, as opposed to desktop applications, they become OS-independent and Microsoft will have its main advantage (the Windows software ecosystem) n…

I'm not sure MS are that dumb §. They know apps are moving to the web, and they want to be sure that Google and Apple don't control that experience.

They know IE9 is a bit crap, and they'll release an IE10 with proper history API, gradients, transforms and the rest when they can. They'll have a working web office someday too.

In the meantime they'll pimp IE9, the Office 'web apps' and other substandard ones to their customers until their kickass version 3 products come out.

§ Withstanding there are probably a few people in MS who really still love fat client.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#57

Post by blub »

rbanffy wrote: post #53
mmazing wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that Microsoft has been terrible at this since 1999. They consistently do their own thing instead of going with standards, and they are always behind the curve. They seem to be trying to catch up with standards but have been unable to make any sort of impressive progress. To be honest, if they've put five years into it and are still so far behind, they need to fire some people. Does anyone actually consi…

> To be honest, if they've put five years into it and are still so far behind, they need to fire some people. You are assuming Microsoft wants to adhere to standards. I find it more likely their strategy is to fragment the market because the day web applications become the norm, as opposed to desktop applications, they become OS-independent and Microsoft will have its main advantage (the Windows software ecosystem) n…

> the day web applications become the norm,

That will never happen. Web apps have critical issues that can't be solved even by HTML8.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#58

Post by blub »

mmazing wrote: post #35
acabal wrote: post #30

I'm still not sure what the point of all this is. Any developer worth their salt already knows that IE9 is more or less a small step forward but still far short of what it needs to be and of what FF/Chrome have accomplished ages ago. Any non-technical user won't be reading this article and won't give a damn about IE vs. FF vs. Chrome, as long as their internets work. Why keep up the pissing match? Who are they talkin…

The point is that Microsoft has been terrible at this since 1999. They consistently do their own thing instead of going with standards, and they are always behind the curve. They seem to be trying to catch up with standards but have been unable to make any sort of impressive progress. To be honest, if they've put five years into it and are still so far behind, they need to fire some people. Does anyone actually consi…

As a FF user, I wish they would adopt the same security improvements that IE has, instead of writing lame posts about canvases and shadows. i.e: automatically running under a restricted account and tab-as-process.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#59

Post by nailer »

ch0wn wrote: post #44
acabal wrote: post #30

I'm still not sure what the point of all this is. Any developer worth their salt already knows that IE9 is more or less a small step forward but still far short of what it needs to be and of what FF/Chrome have accomplished ages ago. Any non-technical user won't be reading this article and won't give a damn about IE vs. FF vs. Chrome, as long as their internets work. Why keep up the pissing match? Who are they talkin…

The point is that people listening to microsoft's PR will think that IE 9 is as modern as the next browser and that is clearly not true. As a web developer I want to use the new technologies and as long as there is a major share of IE users I just can't.

I listened to Microsoft's PR (which seemed to have some technical basis) and spent time asking MS about HTML5 history API out of genuine need, then wondering why there was no info, even when I asked MS directly. Ditto transforms.

Re: IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)

#60

Post by rbanffy »

blub wrote: post #57
rbanffy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be honest, if they've put five years into it and are still so far behind, they need to fire some people. You are assuming Microsoft wants to adhere to standards. I find it more likely their strategy is to fragment the market because the day web applications become the norm, as opposed to desktop applications, they become OS-independent and Microsoft will have its main advantage (the Windows software ecosystem) n…

> the day web applications become the norm, That will never happen. Web apps have critical issues that can't be solved even by HTML8.

Care to explain those issues?
Post reply on HN