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Google doesn't get 'social', but Apple doesn't understand the Internet

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Re: Google doesn't get 'social', but Apple doesn't understand the Internet

#51

Post by pnathan »

sfphotoarts wrote: post #6
Synaesthesia wrote: post #3

I'd venture to say the internet doesn't get Apple. Many geeks are just anti anything Apple, and have an irrational hatred for them. Apple have made huge contributions to the internet, such as Webkit, promoting web standards, the iPhone and yes, even the iTunes store - still the biggest internet-based media distribution channel.

Nearly every geek I know has a MBP, and every startup I've worked at uses the same.

I can't stand the walled garden approach Apple takes.

I think the OSX/Mac overall experience is the best out there, beating Ubuntu 10.10 and W7. (Reliability, programmer-friendliness, 'normal' programs).

Re: Google doesn't get 'social', but Apple doesn't understand the Internet

#52

Post by rbarooah »

I think it would be more accurate to say that from Apple's perspective 'the internet' is more than just the World Wide Web. Apps (and desktop applications) are peers to the browser - not something that necessarily has to run within it.

Part of the reason so much online activity shifted to the web in the web 1.0 era was that the browser sidestepped the problems of distributing and updating client applications.

With its app stores, Apple has solved these problems, and put applications back on an equal footing with web apps.

Whether or not this is is the winning strategy over the long term remains to be seen, but I think it's hard to make the case that Apple doesn't understand the internet.

Re: Google doesn't get 'social', but Apple doesn't understand the Internet

#53

Post by notahacker »

glhaynes wrote: post #38
eftpotrm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But so much of the beauty of the Internet is its portable ubiquity; I can write a website once and it's available in much the same format to Windows, MacOS, Unix, iOS, Android.... you name it. Whereas in the mobile world we're seeing _millions_ spent on creating what are essentially platform-specific mobile data clients in parallel versions. They're barely even superior to what's possible with HTML now. This is madne…

They're barely even superior to what's possible with HTML now. If this were really the case — not just in a spec-sheet way but in a user experience way — why are all these companies making apps?

Obviously there are native app advantages to the end user beyond that, particularly given the slowness of 3G internet and the ease of making payments via the App Store. In many cases though its simply the same reason they also have Facebook fan pages and once had AOL keywords - branding.

Steve Jobs even started extolling the virtues of Apple's ability to "bring subscribers" to digitl publishers, and going by their latest announcement, Apple themselves regard their platform as being worth 30% of the value of the content, even to those who would rather process payments themselves.

It remains to be seen how far consumers and creators agree.

Re: Google doesn't get 'social', but Apple doesn't understand the Internet

#54

Post by Bud »

btmorex wrote: post #44
pohl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that always gets trotted out in this context. If what you think this suggests is true there would be more than one such story. To me it just smells of a demographic grateful of finally getting some mercy sex. Besides, it's a charity. I was talking about commerce.

Well, one real story is a whole lot more compelling than hearsay.

He has a bit more than hearsay going for him; Apple's success in various markets lately has been huge. Linux's success in getting people to spend anything like that kind of money in any consumer context? Basically nil.

Come on, we all know this, we don't need a page of citations to prove to us that Apple is the biggest non-Exxon company in world history, and it's not by accident or some mysterious means.

Re: Google doesn't get 'social', but Apple doesn't understand the Internet

#55

Post by Bud »

wvenable wrote: post #49
fryguy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exhibit B: In order to do things with your iPhone (like download podcasts, or update firmware), you need to plug it in to your computer and have it do a sync. The phone is on the internet, why do you need to plug it in? Google got this completely right on their phone in that everything syncs to "the cloud." I'm not saying android is perfect, but that is one aspect that's better about it.

My parents just purchased a laptop; they're not really "computer people" but it's hard to get by without one these days. They might have been better off with an iPad but they could never use it because it requires an existing computer to work. My daughter got an iPod touch for Christmas and I was shocked that it's just a useless brick until connected to a computer. I had to bring her laptop to Christmas (and hide it)…

You were shocked that her music collection did not magically spring into the iPod from points unseen?

What were you expecting to happen? Did it involve an omnipotent Deity?

Re: Google doesn't get 'social', but Apple doesn't understand the Internet

#56

Post by wvenable »

Bud wrote: post #55
wvenable wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents just purchased a laptop; they're not really "computer people" but it's hard to get by without one these days. They might have been better off with an iPad but they could never use it because it requires an existing computer to work. My daughter got an iPod touch for Christmas and I was shocked that it's just a useless brick until connected to a computer. I had to bring her laptop to Christmas (and hide it)…

You were shocked that her music collection did not magically spring into the iPod from points unseen? What were you expecting to happen? Did it involve an omnipotent Deity?

While she does primarily use it for music, she spends just as much time playing games and surfing the web. She can add games without connecting it to a computer, but it still requires a computer to get it that far.

It's just surprising that a device with so many capabilities (other than playing music) cannot do anything without that initial connection. You can't even just play around with the home screen icons!

Re: Google doesn't get 'social', but Apple doesn't understand the Internet

#57

Post by orangecat »

epistasis wrote: post #7

iOS tries hard to make web apps first class citizens. And the HTML, CSS, and JavaScript parts that make this possible are in HTML5. It's not that Apple doesn't understand the internet, it's that many geeks want "native" apps, rather than having web apps on mobile devices. Apple tolerates these apps, but just barely, and offers the web as the way out of their walled garden.

it's that many geeks want "native" apps, rather than having web apps on mobile devices.

The app store didn't get to be a huge success by appealing to geeks. Native apps really do have significant advantages over web apps (and vice versa).

Re: Google doesn't get 'social', but Apple doesn't understand the Internet

#58

Post by seabee »

rradu wrote: post #42

"Google doesn't know how to have fun" Has anyone ever actually said this? Between the logo doodles, April fools jokes, and bright colors, Google is one of the funnest companies around.

Don't forget silly extras you find from time to time (kayak across the Pacific in Maps, 'Undo send' in gmail). How often do you find things like that from large companies?

Re: Google doesn't get 'social', but Apple doesn't understand the Internet

#59

Post by othermaciej »

mcav wrote: post #48
glhaynes wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're barely even superior to what's possible with HTML now. If this were really the case — not just in a spec-sheet way but in a user experience way — why are all these companies making apps?

Because customers can buy apps in one click, so they do. If webapps had the same payment/installation procedure, they'd take off like a rocket too. (Given HTML5's local caching and the like.)

I'd love if it that was true, but the evidence isn't really there.

For instance, Chrome Web Store offers a payment/installation for web apps, and it doesn't seem to be taking off like a rocket.

Re: Google doesn't get 'social', but Apple doesn't understand the Internet

#60

Post by SoftwareMaven »

wvenable wrote: post #49
fryguy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exhibit B: In order to do things with your iPhone (like download podcasts, or update firmware), you need to plug it in to your computer and have it do a sync. The phone is on the internet, why do you need to plug it in? Google got this completely right on their phone in that everything syncs to "the cloud." I'm not saying android is perfect, but that is one aspect that's better about it.

My parents just purchased a laptop; they're not really "computer people" but it's hard to get by without one these days. They might have been better off with an iPad but they could never use it because it requires an existing computer to work. My daughter got an iPod touch for Christmas and I was shocked that it's just a useless brick until connected to a computer. I had to bring her laptop to Christmas (and hide it)…

I think the first person who makes a "hard drive" with an iPod/iPad connector that emulates iTunes so people can backup their iPads without owning a computer will make a lot of money. It's the only thing keeping an iPad from being a general-purpose device for a very large demographic (or Apple could get with the times and allow a true cloud sync).
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