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Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

arstechnica.com

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Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#51

Post by Gibbon1 »

nostromo wrote: post #19
mark_l_watson wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am actually OK with that. I don’t believe the government is going to routinely misuse location data, confiscate my guns, ... etc. I don’t want corporations having my tracking data. The government, Democrats and Republicans, basically do whatever corporations want, so this action is surprising and welcome.

I see this all the time online, but rarely in the same breath. "I trust the government, which is corrupt and run by evil corporations."

I read the comment as that they are surprised that the government is pushing back instead of legitimizing bad behavior.

Likely explanation is the wealthy and powerful have a personal interest here. Consider the security nightmare that phone tacking poses for high wealth individuals.

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#53

Post by acdha »

ska wrote: post #52
dd36 wrote: post #12

Toothless fines. Indict corporate officers or employees that did it... then you’ll get change.

Fines don't have to be toothless.

This is technically true but the odds of a fine being levied which is high enough to register on huge companies like this is exceedingly low, especially since everyone involved in that decision could walk away from a bankruptcy and still be fabulously rich. Punishing shareholders has a lot of collateral damage but personal liability has almost none.

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#54

Post by thedance »

JohnFen wrote: post #37
deadmutex wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, Google doesn't sell your personal location data: https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/ Disclaimer: I work at Google.

This is true, although it's engaging in a bit of hair-splitting.

It's not. The extent to which old-line businesses like telcos and banks will literally sell your data is way beyond anything Google has ever contemplated. I can call a credit card data clearinghouse and order all of the transactions of every age 30-35 male in Akron, Ohio in December 2019 and they'll put that in a spreadsheet and send it to me. It really is important to distinguish between "selling your data" and what Google does in the course of business, because if you are unable to make that distinction then you aren't aware of the terrifying scale and specificity of the data provided by other industries.

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#55

Post by warent »

ska wrote: post #52
dd36 wrote: post #12

Toothless fines. Indict corporate officers or employees that did it... then you’ll get change.

Fines don't have to be toothless.

It depends on the perspective. Imagine an FCC shopping page for businesses that says something like: "Gain ability to sell customer location data for a year: $10,000,000"

"Fine" is a euphemism for market price. If the profits outweigh the fines and the poor PR can be controlled in a timely manner, then they'll do it every time.

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#56

Post by ta999999171 »

cortesoft wrote: post #24
anonymousiam wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this Supreme Court ruling has eliminated all use of Stingray-like equipment by all law enforcement agencies unless they have a warrant? Wow! Looks like Harris will be going of business soon, and no more DRT boxes flying over cities?

Obtaining phone location data is different than a stingray. Not saying it is ok, just totally different.

Triangulation, signal strength, etc.

0 effective difference.

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#58

Post by ta999999171 »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #42
anonymousiam wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much of a difference really. Mainly just that LE uses their own equipment instead of that of the carrier. This brings up a separate FCC issue: Why is it okay for LE to transmit on the cellular bands for this purpose, when it provably can interfere with emergency communications (such as a 911 call)?

It’s a huge difference. The technical difference is that law enforcement is doing an end-run around the carrier to have phones just give up information. Carriers have zero control over that.

Sure they do! (Assuming you're not kidding.)

Make the cell connections a secure protocol, instead of something any asshole with an antenna can spoof & create a portable "cell tower".

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#59

Post by ta999999171 »

tomc1985 wrote: post #14
anonymousiam wrote: post #4

So it's okay for the carriers to provide the phone-location (and other metadata) to government entities without a warrant, but it's not okay to sell it commercially? I'd love to see a legal analysis of that argument.

Do you want the ambulance/police car dispatched for you as soon as the operator determines there is a problem, or wait for them to receive your location by you telling them? What about all the people that can't for some reason? It's the only reason in my mind the government should have access to that info, and it's a damn good one

I'll wait.

Where's the opt-out button on my device to ensure my 4th Amendment right is exercised?

Oh, right. It's forced. "Freedom".

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#60

Post by cnasc »

warent wrote: post #55
ska wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fines don't have to be toothless.

It depends on the perspective. Imagine an FCC shopping page for businesses that says something like: "Gain ability to sell customer location data for a year: $10,000,000" "Fine" is a euphemism for market price. If the profits outweigh the fines and the poor PR can be controlled in a timely manner, then they'll do it every time.

What about an FCC shopping page that says the price is “throw one scapegoat to the wolves”?
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