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EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

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Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#51

Post by reaperducer »

tanilama wrote: post #46

I can't see a single reason why iPhone shouldn't use usb-c at the moment except to build Apple's own walled garden to charge a surplus against its customer.

Because lightning was available long before USB-C and there's no reason that hundreds of millions of customers should have to switch to new cables and throw billions of old chargers, wires, and accessories into landfills?

When USB-C is superior for using on phones, then I'm OK with it. But right now it's just exchanging one plug for another because a bunch of bureaucrats say so.

Does this mean in 20 years we'll still be stuck with USB-C instead of something better because just Brussels says so?

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#52

Post by gmac »

tanilama wrote: post #46

I can't see a single reason why iPhone shouldn't use usb-c at the moment except to build Apple's own walled garden to charge a surplus against its customer.

1. Existing iPhone users already have a bunch of Lightning cables (I probably have a dozen) but would have to buy a bunch of USB-C cables. That would be annoying, expensive, and wasteful.

2. Lightning is not a standard like USB-C, but is (subjectively) much nicer, as others in this thread have pointed out.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#53

Post by microtherion »

martin-adams wrote: post #37

Let’s say this rule was in place 10 years ago and we standardised on micro USB. How would it have been possible to advance to the next generation of technology like USB-C. This feels that it’s banking on USB-C being forever future proofed or wireless connections does everything we ever need.

Micro USB would be kind of mediocre. But if the rule had been in place 20 years ago, cell phones today might be featuring SCSI connectors.

And of course, all laptops would be mandated to have VGA connectors, eliminating a ton of conference room presentation guesswork.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#54

Post by SiempreViernes »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #34

The joint motion points to adopting Directive 2014/53/EU which requires common _chargers_ but says nothing about the port that the phone uses. As far as I can tell this is only for the back half of the charger / brick that connects to the wall. Yet the Apple statement, and most of the articles about this (including the linked one), are talking about the phone's connector and talks about lightning and usb-c. Most of t…

Indeed, the text only speaks of a "common charger" without specifying further, so I'm somewhat surprised you make the claim the directive speaks only about one sub-part of the charger.

To me things appear thus: the EP passed a directive that states mobile radio equipment should have a "common charger", sensibly letting manufacturers decide how to solve the interoperability problem. Apple then argued "well, it's not explicit that you should be able use the 'common charger' without an adapter" and continued making phones that can't be charged by equipment made by others.

This join resolution isn't super clear about it, but does indicate that: "common charger" really ought to mean you can use the same charger for all similar devices.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#55

Post by reaperducer »

lukifer wrote: post #40
nemothekid wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I remember, this piece of legislation has been floating around since USB mini. We have now gone through 2 revisions to a connector that is now reversible and can carry video. Locking onto USB-C now could be a very "640k ought to be enough for everybody" moment. And if Apple was going to switch to USB C anyways, whats the point of this legislation?

> Locking onto USB-C now could be a very "640k ought to be enough for everybody" moment. I agree in general; but at some point don't we hit diminishing returns? If I were to say, "18.4 exabytes of RAM ought to be enough for everybody", that'd be basically correct, even future-proofing for the craziest sci-fi holodeck use cases we can imagine, right?

I agree in general; but at some point don't we hit diminishing returns? If I were to say, "18.4 exabytes of RAM ought to be enough for everybody", that'd be basically correct, even future-proofing for the craziest sci-fi holodeck use cases we can imagine, right?

But the legislation doesn't lock into something that might happen in the future. It locks the future to what we have today.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#56

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

reaperducer wrote: post #51
tanilama wrote: post #46

I can't see a single reason why iPhone shouldn't use usb-c at the moment except to build Apple's own walled garden to charge a surplus against its customer.

Because lightning was available long before USB-C and there's no reason that hundreds of millions of customers should have to switch to new cables and throw billions of old chargers, wires, and accessories into landfills? When USB-C is superior for using on phones, then I'm OK with it. But right now it's just exchanging one plug for another because a bunch of bureaucrats say so. Does this mean in 20 years we'll still…

Well right now, if you are not fully locked into the Apple ecosystem, you require two cables. That's quite a waste, no?

We're quite lucky no PC manufacturer managed to get as big as Apple is today back in the 80s-90s. There's no way we would have universal RAM, universal Keyboards, universal Video Cards, etc, etc, today, if that was the case.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#57

Post by PowerfulWizard »

theslurmmustflo wrote: post #36

I'll miss lightning when it's gone if only because it was the most satisfying and secure feeling cable connection I've ever used. USB-C has some slack built into it by design but it just makes it feel lower quality.

The USB flavors and so many others have a little plastic tongue on the female side which I think is the source of the alignment sensitivity and fragility issues. Lightning, headphone jacks, and RJ45 have a purely concave port which I much prefer.

edit: and if there has to be a weak point it should be on the cable side, not on the port side.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#58

Post by SiempreViernes »

martin-adams wrote: post #37

Let’s say this rule was in place 10 years ago and we standardised on micro USB. How would it have been possible to advance to the next generation of technology like USB-C. This feels that it’s banking on USB-C being forever future proofed or wireless connections does everything we ever need.

Why? The resolution states that the commission should make sure the standard can be updated as technology develops:

"[...] the Commission, without hampering innovation, should ensure that the legislative framework for a common charger will be scrutinised regularly in order to take into account technical progress; reiterates the importance of research and innovation in this domain to improve existing technologies and come up with new ones;"

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#59

Post by eanzenberg »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #58
martin-adams wrote: post #37

Let’s say this rule was in place 10 years ago and we standardised on micro USB. How would it have been possible to advance to the next generation of technology like USB-C. This feels that it’s banking on USB-C being forever future proofed or wireless connections does everything we ever need.

Why? The resolution states that the commission should make sure the standard can be updated as technology develops: "[...] the Commission, without hampering innovation, should ensure that the legislative framework for a common charger will be scrutinised regularly in order to take into account technical progress; reiterates the importance of research and innovation in this domain to improve existing technologies and…

Because gov't moves as fast as innovation /s

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#60

Post by erik_seaberg »

nemothekid wrote: post #33
falcolas wrote: post #28

The iPad Pro uses a usb c charger, as does the MacBook line; stifles innovation my ass.

As far as I remember, this piece of legislation has been floating around since USB mini. We have now gone through 2 revisions to a connector that is now reversible and can carry video. Locking onto USB-C now could be a very "640k ought to be enough for everybody" moment. And if Apple was going to switch to USB C anyways, whats the point of this legislation?

There are now low power ports (only enough for phones), high power ports (good for laptops), and full-on data ports (which create malware risks, and may or may not support your use case). There are good reasons these should not look alike nor fit together.
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