The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much • Hacker News Board

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#51

Post by fjh » Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 11:33 PM UTC

haploid wrote: post #38

_h4xr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend The Red Queen if you want to start learning about this. The short answer: men largely choose mates based on looks; women choose based more on social status. Signalling low social status reduces male attractiveness; signalling high social status raises it. n = 1, but this has worked for me. Deliberately act like you can take it or leave it, and you're unlikely to be left. (And note that women initiate the…

Both you and yummyfajitas are making the classic error of espousing an unpopular opinion amongst people who tend to irrationally believe magical romantic things about evolved bags of meat. It's a fairly well established biological fact( caveat - there are of course exceptions )that female primates, including humans, respond sexually favorably toward high status behavior on the part of males. The Red Queen is a good b…

> Both you and yummyfajitas are making the classic error of espousing an unpopular opinion amongst the emo hipsters of HN.

No offence, but if you actually had the facts on your side you probably wouldn't feel the need to resort to insulting everyone who doesn't share your opinion. Emo hipsters, really?

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#52

Post by hartror » Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 11:41 PM UTC

_h4xr wrote: post #26

jedsmith wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed]

I recommend The Red Queen if you want to start learning about this. The short answer: men largely choose mates based on looks; women choose based more on social status. Signalling low social status reduces male attractiveness; signalling high social status raises it. n = 1, but this has worked for me. Deliberately act like you can take it or leave it, and you're unlikely to be left. (And note that women initiate the…

I love pop psychology books that tell me it is fine to be lazy and uncaring. /sarcasm

We aren't talking about dating here, we are talking about long term relationships. The whole Red Queen thing breaks down when we add artificial human constructs such as marriage and monogamy.

We are not a Silver Back leading a band of gorillas, we are far more complex than that. Sure, signalling plays a roll in initial conditions, impressions and attractiveness. However once we get past the monkey brain and into the far more complex social behaviors humans have developed there aren't just a couple of sliders to adjust to determine how successful a relationship is.

I would love to hear of anyone having a successful and above all healthy long term relationship using the ideas you espouse.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#53

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 11:43 PM UTC

haploid wrote: post #38

_h4xr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend The Red Queen if you want to start learning about this. The short answer: men largely choose mates based on looks; women choose based more on social status. Signalling low social status reduces male attractiveness; signalling high social status raises it. n = 1, but this has worked for me. Deliberately act like you can take it or leave it, and you're unlikely to be left. (And note that women initiate the…

Both you and yummyfajitas are making the classic error of espousing an unpopular opinion amongst people who tend to irrationally believe magical romantic things about evolved bags of meat. It's a fairly well established biological fact( caveat - there are of course exceptions )that female primates, including humans, respond sexually favorably toward high status behavior on the part of males. The Red Queen is a good b…

[deleted]

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#54

Post by hartror » Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 11:45 PM UTC

roc wrote: post #34

hartror wrote: post #8

I would group it all into one tip: Make an effort with your relationship. Like everything good in life it takes work to have a good relationship. If you make an effort to have a good relationship, applying thought and energy day to day, you will grow a healthy satisfying relationship.

I wouldn't stop there. In my experience, people who nag believe themselves to be "making an effort". Indeed, they think they're doing the right thing . Willingness to put in the effort is a good first start, but it's not enough. Many people clearly don't understand why certain things do or don't work. And there's as much to be learned from study and experience in the right way to work at a relationship as there is in…

I guess I simplified it a little to far. "Making an effort" also involves continually examining your own behavior, testing if it is constructive and helping the situation. This sort of self examination is a very useful tool and can be applied in all facets of life, social and career.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#55

Post by haploid » Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 11:46 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #44

haploid wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both you and yummyfajitas are making the classic error of espousing an unpopular opinion amongst people who tend to irrationally believe magical romantic things about evolved bags of meat. It's a fairly well established biological fact( caveat - there are of course exceptions )that female primates, including humans, respond sexually favorably toward high status behavior on the part of males. The Red Queen is a good b…

[deleted]

I edited my post. The hipster reference was not constructive.

Re: fat nerds and social value:

In 2011, "fat nerds" can wield quite a bit of financial power. This can make them attractive to females by virtue of the fact that they can be utilized as resource providers for their future offspring.

However, it should be noted that sexual attraction and attraction to resources are generally two independent drives in female primates. Many female primates utilize independent strategies, procuring resources and genetic material from different men simultaneously. See the citations in "Sperm Wars" for references to the research on this phenomenon.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#56

Post by marssaxman » Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 11:49 PM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #9

Comparative advantage is the name of the game. My parents have been doing that for years, even when my mom ends up with some manly work (tall house + lots of Christmas lights) and my dad ends up with some non-manly work. It works pretty well for them. They even optimized which kid helps them, I worked better with my mom (I was all about getting a list of chores and powering through them when I had time, and so is she…

My wife and I just assign each job to whichever of us is less annoyed by having to do it, and somehow it all seems to balance out. She cleans the bathrooms and does the laundry, I sweep and vacuum and take out the trash, she makes the coffee in the morning and I turn off the lights at night. We certainly aim to be equal partners in our marriage, but instead of tallying everything up for some perfectly fair 50/50 division, we try to embrace our differences and specialize in what we're good at.

Sometimes the breakdown does look disturbingly similar to the old traditional gender roles, but sometimes it really doesn't - I do the mending, for example, and she takes the car in for service. I'm sure we are both influenced by the traditional sexism of the societies we grew up in, but whatever the reasons for our choices, each of us pretty much gets to do what we think of as the easy or inconsequential chores while our partner tackles the nasty, time-consuming, or obnoxious ones.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#57

Post by tertius » Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 11:56 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #32

bartonfink wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I just need to figure out a good way to pass that hint along to my wife without her inferring that I hate her and don't ever want to speak to her about anything.

Find a way to infect her friend with this info/site. They'll be more likely to influence her than you.

I always found this very scary. If I'm not the largest influencer (positive/negative) then I have bigger problems to worry about.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#58

Post by alextp » Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 11:58 PM UTC

ojbyrne wrote: post #16

abalashov wrote: post #13

This is the first popular publication article I've seen that has given the very important cognitive overload aspect of nagging--and especially multi-pronged nagging litany, which seems to be the most common kind--the treatment it deserves: But when it comes to nagging reminders about what your spouse still has to do after a long day working for the man—take out the recycling, walk the dog, write a thank-you letter, d…

This doesn't actually take into account that the naggee can influence this. As a 12 year old, I remember finally getting so sick of my Dad nagging me to mow the lawn, that I started doing it before he had a chance to.

With my mother this failed miserably. After I gave up on her nagging for someone to do the dishes, she started nagging that the dishes weren't coming out as clean as they should. After I started scrubbing a lot longer and harder she started nagging that the drain and the sink weren't always pristine. After I started cleaning the drain and sink every time I did the dishes she complained the the countertop got wet. After I started drying the countertop, then the kitchen table had crumbs over it. After that, I broke down and had a really bad fight with her, and got her to shut up and just clean whatever it was that bothered her so much in the kitchen.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#59

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 11:58 PM UTC

haploid wrote: post #38

_h4xr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend The Red Queen if you want to start learning about this. The short answer: men largely choose mates based on looks; women choose based more on social status. Signalling low social status reduces male attractiveness; signalling high social status raises it. n = 1, but this has worked for me. Deliberately act like you can take it or leave it, and you're unlikely to be left. (And note that women initiate the…

Both you and yummyfajitas are making the classic error of espousing an unpopular opinion amongst people who tend to irrationally believe magical romantic things about evolved bags of meat. It's a fairly well established biological fact( caveat - there are of course exceptions )that female primates, including humans, respond sexually favorably toward high status behavior on the part of males. The Red Queen is a good b…

[deleted]

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#60

Post by yummyfajitas » Mon, Feb 14, 2011, 11:59 PM UTC

hartror wrote: post #52

_h4xr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend The Red Queen if you want to start learning about this. The short answer: men largely choose mates based on looks; women choose based more on social status. Signalling low social status reduces male attractiveness; signalling high social status raises it. n = 1, but this has worked for me. Deliberately act like you can take it or leave it, and you're unlikely to be left. (And note that women initiate the…

I love pop psychology books that tell me it is fine to be lazy and uncaring. /sarcasm We aren't talking about dating here, we are talking about long term relationships. The whole Red Queen thing breaks down when we add artificial human constructs such as marriage and monogamy. We are not a Silver Back leading a band of gorillas, we are far more complex than that. Sure, signalling plays a roll in initial conditions, i…

I love pop psychology books that tell me it is fine to be lazy and uncaring

You are confusing normative and positive claims.