In the sense of AGI, it's all been hype. We are in an ML summer and have been for the past few years. But "deep learning" is nothing more than that, nothing to do with AGI, we're not approaching an AGI winter except for people who were daft enough to fall for the hype. There have been no advances in AGI in decades, it's already winter, and we've long been in it.
> it's already winter, and we've long been in it In terms of research and innovation, yes, but in economic terms, it has not even begun. There is still huuuge VC and government money being pumped into anything with AI on it. The last AI winter started when the financiers discovered the disconnect between the money they put in and delivery on promises. AI went from an obscure hard CS field that only a few graybeards a…
Researchers: Are we on the cusp of an ‘AI winter’?
51–60 of 123 posts
Re: Researchers: Are we on the cusp of an ‘AI winter’?
#52In the sense of AGI, it's all been hype. We are in an ML summer and have been for the past few years. But "deep learning" is nothing more than that, nothing to do with AGI, we're not approaching an AGI winter except for people who were daft enough to fall for the hype. There have been no advances in AGI in decades, it's already winter, and we've long been in it.
Consider language, for instance. Dolphin communication is intelligent, but does not emulate humans well; whereas the computer program ELIZA (1964) lacked intelligence, but was able to emulate humans well enough to entertain many people for quite some time.
Our current state-of-the-art NLP is - after copious research, talent, and computation - able to emulate human language somewhat better than ELIZA. But is it intelligence? There's certainly a lot of complexity involved, and neural networks show some interesting building-block patterns, but the lack of these algorithms' ability to generalize into new spaces, grow our fundamental understanding of the world around us, or really do anything besides pretend to be a human makes one wonder whether our current "AI" is just a (very good) party trick - a better version of ELIZA.
Re: Researchers: Are we on the cusp of an ‘AI winter’?
#53Yes it's hyped, but the match between even the current state of DL and what is needed and possible in these specialties is so close to being perfect, and the gain is so close. What is holding us back is regulatory issues and technical implementation issues that have nothing to with the state of DL, just basic IT problems, lack of standards.
Investments may fall back and companies may stop adversing it as "AI", but the impact of ML/DL in medicine will not fall back.
The "AI" we see today is already effective, just not applied at scale.
Re: Researchers: Are we on the cusp of an ‘AI winter’?
#54So maybe the winter is just as important as the summer. Each winter lead to a summer with different focus points (specialist systems and logic followed by neural networks, bayesian models and SVMs and finally deep learning). And after each cycle we have more and more tools, each more useful than the last. And also maybe the key to avoid this strict cycle would be to encourage more exploration during the exploitation phase, giving full support to both incremental ideals that improve on the state of the art and (potentially) revolutionary ideas that give poor immediate results but create new venues to investigate.
Of course that's a simplification and there are many aspects to it, including data availability, hardware and tooling that can easily prevent brilliant ideas that were had too soon.
Re: Researchers: Are we on the cusp of an ‘AI winter’?
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is brand new technology. It's going to take a few years to reliably productionize - and most of the applied solutions will look nothing like the research. Many real world problems are going to combine multiple neural nets into systems with specific applications and there's a lot of detail to work out. The hype may collapse in the short term, but that's only because many of the first movers are stereotypical tech…
I used to do electromagnetic modeling using finite element methods (though now a product manager for AI software infra) and it would to take me on the order of hours to days or weeks to model wave interaction with real-world objects. A machine learning model trained to understand Maxwell's Equations can in principle be used perform said simulations, resulting in probably an order or more of magnitude increase in simu…
If I understand your comment correctly, essentially you have a hand-crafted simulator for some physical process and then you train a neural net model to approximate the simulator. Why would the approximated simulator have "an order or more of magnitude increase in simulation speed"? Unless the approximation has massive losses in accuracy, of course.
Honestly asking and really interested to know what you mean.
Re: Researchers: Are we on the cusp of an ‘AI winter’?
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
I used to do electromagnetic modeling using finite element methods (though now a product manager for AI software infra) and it would to take me on the order of hours to days or weeks to model wave interaction with real-world objects. A machine learning model trained to understand Maxwell's Equations can in principle be used perform said simulations, resulting in probably an order or more of magnitude increase in simu…
Were would the speedup come from? I don't understand. If I understand your comment correctly, essentially you have a hand-crafted simulator for some physical process and then you train a neural net model to approximate the simulator. Why would the approximated simulator have "an order or more of magnitude increase in simulation speed"? Unless the approximation has massive losses in accuracy, of course. Honestly askin…
Imagine you are given a picture of a candle, overlaid with a grid, and asked to fill in, with colored pencils, colors for the air surrounding the candle representing relative temperature. Of course a human utilizes intuition to rapidly assign high temperature to the flame and decreasing temperature with increasing distance.
A "dumb" finite method would need, even for such a relatively simple problem (for a human), to perform calculations for a series of time steps in each grid until some steady state condition to arrive at a much more precise but still overall similar coloring of the grid cells. You can do the same task much more quickly because you have developed intuition of the physics, which is to say you have learned heuristics which capture the general trends of the problem (air is hot close to a flame and cold far away).
Neural nets take the best of both worlds - by effectively learning probability relationships between input and output pixels, they internalize heuristic approaches to produce outputs approaching finite method accuracies at a fraction of the computation. There's a lot of waste that can be optimized out of finite computation by hardcoding rules (heuristics), but doing so for real problems is impractical. Neural nets learn these rules through training - a far simpler task is organizing the data to teach the net the right trends; much like designing lessons for a child to teach a predictive ability.
Re: Researchers: Are we on the cusp of an ‘AI winter’?
#57I think there's an interesting disconnect right now between research and practice. Cutting-edge research does feel like it's reaching a plateau - across most AI fields even "major" breakthroughs are only gaining a couple percentage points and we're probably starting to hit the limits of what current approaches can achieve. When the state-of-the-art is 97% on a task, there's only so much room for improvement. Yoav Gol…
Difference between 97% and 99.99% in perception is huge for autonomous driving purposes. 300x less likely to cause an accident.
Your Tesla might be 99.99% in recognizing red lights but will continue to drive straight into paper boxes in its immediate path.
Re: Researchers: Are we on the cusp of an ‘AI winter’?
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you give some examples of applications that you think will have big impacts? I see places where current AI techniques can make incremental improvements but I just don't see any applications that really seem game changing. The ones that come closest tend to be dystopian unfortunately, like most applications of facial recognition.
My startup analyzes historical sales via LSTM and makes future predictions based on geo location, description of products, price of products, weather and holidays. I did the similar work for IBM 10 years ago and we could hardly accomplish fraction of what my startup can achieve today. Right inventory at right location in right quantity is essential to e-commerce and our ai is helping out a lot in this regard
Re: Researchers: Are we on the cusp of an ‘AI winter’?
#59Can't comment on every industry, but in medicine - especially the 'pattern-recognition-specialties' such as formost pathology and radiology - the actual implementation/usefulness/impact of "AI" (ML/DL) has not yet taken a foothold. Yes it's hyped, but the match between even the current state of DL and what is needed and possible in these specialties is so close to being perfect, and the gain is so close. What is hold…
Re: Researchers: Are we on the cusp of an ‘AI winter’?
#60> While AGI isn't going to be created any time soon, machines have learned how to master complex tasks like: > translating text into practically every language Note: they said they have mastered these tasks. Yeah... I'm not sure a lot of native speakers would agree. Here's a great example of using Google Translate to automatically translate a video game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uNkubEHfQU > Driving cars I'm…
> Now don't get me wrong, we've made a lot of progress, but I wonder if we can get these things to a place better than humans before the next economic recession. I don't think it's necessary to completely solve superhuman performance to achieve automation of great economic value. Some of the most famous AI achievements leverage a fairly modest intelligence improvement with massive amounts of classic automation. E.g.,…
The issue is that humans fare badly in situations where they don't have to pay attention until they suddenly have a short time to react before disaster, and that's exactly the problem that "supervised" self-driving systems have been suffering from when they crash.
And if you have to pay constant attention to the road anyway, I'd rather be driving myself. What's going to win won't be self-driving tech, it will be driver assist, like advanced anti-lock brakes, or self-adjusting cruise control.