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Medications that change who we are

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Re: Medications that change who we are

#51

Post by spodek »

Let's also consider the other direction -- how fresh vegetables and fruit, plus whole grains, beans, nuts, seeds, and herbs improve mood, behavior, resilience. Throw in some vigorous exercise, and for most people, drugs can't do better, without the drugs' side effects and cost.

For many people, switching from a standard American diet to largely those ingredients would register as changing who they are.

I just finished reading a chapter on it in Dr. Michael Greger's How Not to Die -- the chapter is "How Not to Die From Suicidal Depression" with plenty of footnotes to primary sources.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#52

Post by PragmaticPulp »

sugarkjube wrote: post #40

Definitely 100% true, first hand experience here. I had mild medication prescribed for regulating blood pressure. Supposedly without psychological side effects. I found out a year later that it dramatically affected my personality. More or less like in the article, but in the opposite way. The frightening thing is, I didn't know !!! I found out a year later when temporarily stopping the medication, my kids started to…

> I found out a year later that it dramatically affected my personality. More or less like in the article, but in the opposite way.

So the blood pressure medication made you more calm? You didn’t specify the medication they prescribed, but that’s a common effect of certain types of blood pressure medication. In fact, certain blood pressure medications are prescribed off-label for their calming properties. One blood pressure medication is even approved for also treating ADHD (Guanfacine).

If you find that your doctor doesn’t acknowledge your side effects or dismisses your complaints, it’s time to get a second opinion or rotate doctors. I’ve never had a problem with my doctors not believing me.

> I'm pretty sure if you take anything like anti anxiety / depressants, psycho-pharmaceuticals, or just anything with known side effects, the impact must be dramatic.

In my experience, the good doctors are well aware that all medications come with side effects. The best doctors strive to minimize medication exposure for this reason. Ironically, many patients disapprove of this because it feels like the doctors are withholding treatments, even when it may be the best choice for the patient.

The most common example is people demanding antibiotics for common colds. Doctors know antibiotics won’t help and that they come with significant risks, but they also know that patients might leave a bad review if they leave empty handed.

In the case of psychiatric medications: Yes, the differences can be significant. However, the side effects are worth the tradeoff for alleviating serious psychiatric issues. Being naturally healthy is obviously preferable to being medicated with side effects, but that’s not the choice that patients are making in these cases. Instead, they’re choosing between continuing to be unhealthy without medication or dealing with some side effects in order to relieve some of their pain.

This is also why many people get stuck in cycles of discontinuing their psychiatric medications. Someone who achieves remission from depression with anti-depressant medication might think that they don’t need the medication now that they’re “better”, and when all they can see are the side effects. This leads them to discontinue, which often results in relapse of the underlying disorder if not managed with the help of their doctors.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#53

Post by ohiovr »

LeonM wrote: post #31

This is basically the story of my mother. About 15 years ago she was suffering from a panic disorder. Instead of trying to help her, her doctor prescribed a fairly high dose of benzodiazepines and be done with it. These 'medicine' only made matters worse and changed her behavior radically. She became very closed up, never wanting to do anything, never leaving the house and always finding excuses not having to do anyt…

I think benzodiazepines can be partially behind my friend, Jerold Haas' death especially the withdrawal from it. These drugs are really strong and it if it is strong in a way that doesn't help it leads to great distortions in thinking. Some drugs can help a lot but if it doesn't help it can hurt pretty bad. I take some drugs that help me tremendously but I won't last long without it because I can't get restful sleep without it anymore. In that case I have a dependency without addiction but I read that benzos can also be addicting.

It is a shame Darry did not get the kind of help I received. I believe he died because of a psychiatric system that doesn't take time to observe patients and make small adjustments. I pleaded that Darry get hospitalized and I think he was but it just didn't work out for him. They got him in and in a few days he was out. I was in for weeks. I've basically been on the same medicine regimen since then 14 years ago.

(Darry was Jerold's nick name)

Re: Medications that change who we are

#54

Post by mcv »

spodek wrote: post #51

Let's also consider the other direction -- how fresh vegetables and fruit, plus whole grains, beans, nuts, seeds, and herbs improve mood, behavior, resilience. Throw in some vigorous exercise, and for most people, drugs can't do better, without the drugs' side effects and cost. For many people, switching from a standard American diet to largely those ingredients would register as changing who they are. I just finishe…

You could argue that any kind of self-improvement, therapy, dealing with depression and other issues, changes who you are.

The big question is: do they change you for the better or for worse? If they make you happier, more balanced, more in control of your behaviour, then I'd argue that's a good think. If they make you angry, uncontrolled, a slave to your impulses, then that's bad.

A lot of the stuff we put in our bodies subtly or not-so-subtly influences our behaviour. I wonder if at some point we'll understand these processes well enough to allow us to influence our own behaviour in the direction we want.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#55

Post by chiefalchemist »

rantwasp wrote: post #13
chiefalchemist wrote: post #5

Intra-system communication and control isn't limited to the brain. The gut for example, plays a part. What's concerning about this article is that the researchers (?) we're not open to the possibility.

i believe this is taking a little bit too far. it’s about actually measuring/quantifying the effects. when this is hard/really expensive to do I’m sure the decision not to pursue it is made at several levels. in research (and especially in cutting edge research) you don’t get to explore everything and you have to carefully pick and choose what you do if you want to be around more than a few years.

The tests are done to look for such things. To deny them when presented is indefensible.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#56

Post by darkerside »

kerkeslager wrote: post #36
aphextron wrote: post #32

>"It turns out many ordinary medications don’t just affect our bodies – they affect our brains." I feel like perpetuating this mindset is the ultimate sin of modern psychiatry and the entire industry of psychiatric pharmaceuticals - your brain is your body. It's not some special thing that sits apart from it. It is an integral part of the whole, no different than your kidneys or liver. People think they can take an a…

I think the problem goes at least as far back as Plato and the allegory of the cave. Plato spread this concept that there was a difference between the body and mind or soul, and Western culture has never really recovered from the stupidity of that idea. There's really no evidence or justification for it. Your mind and your body are the same thing.

Modern philosophical thought and religion were built on that idea, and they were arguably inextricable from science in it's early stages. This is like someone people never fully recover from adolescence. Correct, it forms an integral part of who you eventually become.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#57

Post by andruby »

sugarkjube wrote: post #40

Definitely 100% true, first hand experience here. I had mild medication prescribed for regulating blood pressure. Supposedly without psychological side effects. I found out a year later that it dramatically affected my personality. More or less like in the article, but in the opposite way. The frightening thing is, I didn't know !!! I found out a year later when temporarily stopping the medication, my kids started to…

In what way did your personality change?

Re: Medications that change who we are

#58

Post by fhars »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #18

The world is in the midst of a crisis of over-medication, with the US alone buying up 49,000 tonnes of paracetamol every year – equivalent to about 298 paracetamol tablets per person Shocking, I knew it was bad but this is madness.

As another illustration: that is enough paracetamol to reliably kill a quarter of the human population on earth.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#59

Post by ezequiel-garzon »

kerkeslager wrote: post #36
aphextron wrote: post #32

>"It turns out many ordinary medications don’t just affect our bodies – they affect our brains." I feel like perpetuating this mindset is the ultimate sin of modern psychiatry and the entire industry of psychiatric pharmaceuticals - your brain is your body. It's not some special thing that sits apart from it. It is an integral part of the whole, no different than your kidneys or liver. People think they can take an a…

I think the problem goes at least as far back as Plato and the allegory of the cave. Plato spread this concept that there was a difference between the body and mind or soul, and Western culture has never really recovered from the stupidity of that idea. There's really no evidence or justification for it. Your mind and your body are the same thing.

Some people feel one’s essence is fundamentally different from one’s body, including the brain as part of the body. Not saying I support this notion, but to brush it aside as stupid or unjustified seems a bit hasty in view of the huge literature behind these issues. Moreover, doesn’t the notion of reincarnation in some parts of the Eastern world show it’s not restricted to Western culture? I’m sure there plenty more such notions outside the West.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#60

Post by fit2rule »

kerkeslager wrote: post #36
aphextron wrote: post #32

>"It turns out many ordinary medications don’t just affect our bodies – they affect our brains." I feel like perpetuating this mindset is the ultimate sin of modern psychiatry and the entire industry of psychiatric pharmaceuticals - your brain is your body. It's not some special thing that sits apart from it. It is an integral part of the whole, no different than your kidneys or liver. People think they can take an a…

I think the problem goes at least as far back as Plato and the allegory of the cave. Plato spread this concept that there was a difference between the body and mind or soul, and Western culture has never really recovered from the stupidity of that idea. There's really no evidence or justification for it. Your mind and your body are the same thing.

Metabolism. How the chemistry of your body interacts with itself.

I know for sure I have 'episodes' when I've got acid in the wrong parts of the gut. I also 'feel' the stages of stool composition, and there are definitely relics of unhealthy eating in my mood swings.

One thing though, is I never take pharmaceuticals, as I wish my body to be a picture of my life balance, which I believe are two separate realms completely (body/life). Instead I do everything I can to eat well, and give my body the sport it needs. This isn't easy, but everyone's got their own body, and its own needs. If you pay attention, it'll tell you what it needs.

The brain, or at least my brain, is a nice soft spongy joystick for controlling the rest of it. It feels good to throw around a bit, but you gotta take care of what its attached to, as well. A good day in the surf is how I charge my mind up, anyhoo...

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