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24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

newsweek.com

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Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#51

Post by flaque »

htfu wrote: post #33
flaque wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop with the strawman. A dryer, hotter climate will cause fires to get larger and do more damage. No one says that a hotter climate will cause the initial burn spontaneously.

Given the initial spark is usually lightning, which will have a higher chance of causing an out of control fire in dried out conditions, and which is certainly "spontaneous" in my view (as in, nothing we can do about it apart from monitoring), why not? I'd say it qualifies.

That’s my point; the OP’s argument that it’s an “either or” between arson or climate change is a strawman.

Dried out conditions make initial triggers (like lightning or arson) more likely to have disastrous consequences.

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#52

Post by Vysero »

mikestew wrote: post #43
Vysero wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I can't speak for the actual intention of the author. However, I do know that fire fighters are often paid well. I have heard (could be completely false) of people starting fires in order to produce work for themselves. I know it sounds ridiculous but when times get tough...

Though firefighters starting fires for something to do does happen (I went to high school with a guy busted for exactly that; he was not the type that I was shocked to hear the news), you are going way out on a Limb of Supposition there. And as sibling points out, there’s no monetary motive, they’re volunteers for the most part. (Then again, so was my high school buddy). And the paid ones, just like the paid crew dow…

Hot shots can make up to 40 grand in one season. Some of the fire fighters at your local station could be hot shots but they might not be as well. When a forest fire erupts they (hot shots) are the first responders and are trained in a very different way from fire fighters trained to combat house fires.

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#53

Post by flaque »

deith wrote: post #22
flaque wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop with the strawman. A dryer, hotter climate will cause fires to get larger and do more damage. No one says that a hotter climate will cause the initial burn spontaneously.

That's what it sounds like sometimes. "Fires caused by climate change".

It's because no one wants to have these philosophical arguments about whether making an issue significantly "worse" constitutes causation.

Regardless of the side you fall on, making something significantly worse is still a problem to be solved.

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#54

Post by htfu »

flaque wrote: post #51
htfu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the initial spark is usually lightning, which will have a higher chance of causing an out of control fire in dried out conditions, and which is certainly "spontaneous" in my view (as in, nothing we can do about it apart from monitoring), why not? I'd say it qualifies.

That’s my point; the OP’s argument that it’s an “either or” between arson or climate change is a strawman. Dried out conditions make initial triggers (like lightning or arson) more likely to have disastrous consequences.

Right. I'm saying that I AM saying a hotter climate will cause the initial burn spontaneously. By my definition of spontaneously, being "without human input".

What I mean is you're being needlessly defensive. The strawman completely fails even on its own terms.

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#55

Post by misterprime »

legitster wrote: post #29
misterprime wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That statement is about the 180 people. But read it again and you'll see that 24 were arrested for starting brush fires specifically. Here's another article from the Sydney Morning Herald. https://www.smh.com.au/national/teenager-among-180-people-fa...

Thanks, this has more details. > Police allege the fires were set to garbage bins, items placed outside for council clean-up, and motor vehicles. These are definitely arson, but still not people deliberately trying to burn down forests.

What about these lines?

> ...including 24 people charged over deliberately lit bushfires.

>"Arson is not caused by climate change," he told ABC radio on Tuesday.

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