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US Pressed Dutch Gov over ASML Sale

reuters.com

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Re: US Pressed Dutch Gov over ASML Sale

#51

Post by NicoJuicy »

baybal2 wrote: post #38
NicoJuicy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun facts: - Europe destroyed the USSR without war. - Putin gets more resistance protests in Russia because of common sanctions - Gazprom can't sell with profit within Russia, they need Europe - Russia invests a lot of percentage of their GDP on military. But it's still nothing compared to Europe ( russia vs europe military spend: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=russia+vs+europe+milit... ). Remember, Europe isn…

Man... what your economic policy will do to 30k units or armour, and 50k units in reserve? Russia is still 100% capable to just put reservists into t55s and send them in the general direction of Europe. The only two real option to stall them for Nato will be to redeploy US forces to Europe or use French nukes.

> Man... what your economic policy will do to 30k units or armour, and 50k units in reserve?

Make 144,5 million Russians even more unhappy?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-a-big-shift-russians-take-to... - dated: December 2019.

What will the army / Putin do against much higher protests, if they continue to threat and receive more economic sanctions? This is why the USSR, at it's peak in 1980 x 5 of current Russia, fell without a war.

What good has Russia's gigantic military done? I only see failures. It seems that history hasn't been a good teacher. So, please learn some history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japanese_War#Effects_on_...

PS. Always welcome to adjust my opinion with facts.

Re: US Pressed Dutch Gov over ASML Sale

#52

Post by president »

cdiddy2 wrote: post #41
secondo wrote: post #4

As a European I feel increasingly concerned about the influence of US in our recent trading decisions. The sense of an alliance feels somewhat imbalanced to say the least. Interestingly whereas we have an advanced hardware industry we’re so far behind on leading software solutions that I doubt there will be any change to this balance any time soon. I guess software is eating the world...

It feels like the US and China are in an undeclared cold war and the US is trying to draw lines to see who is on which side. If you resist using Huawei for example you are more likely on the US side of the fence. Europe hasn't reached the same level of awareness(paranoia?) that the US has yet.

The cold war has been happening for a while now and has largely been waged by China through "Unrestricted Warfare" [1]. The free world can only win if allies stick together.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_Warfare

Re: US Pressed Dutch Gov over ASML Sale

#53

Post by yorwba »

tomp wrote: post #49
yorwba wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is not about ASML getting sold, but about ASML selling (or rather, not selling) their product to customers in China.

We've learned in the past few years that Chinese will unscrupulously reverse engineer and/or steal any technology they can.

The article says that ASML keeps selling earlier-generation equipment. Apparently, that can't be reverse-engineered and/or stolen as easily. (Or maybe just buying it is cheaper than going through all that hassle.)

Re: US Pressed Dutch Gov over ASML Sale

#54

Post by NicoJuicy »

sykick wrote: post #46
NicoJuicy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe easily outspends Russia in military investments. 287$ billion for Europe, 70$ for Russia in 2015 ( russia vs europe military spend: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=russia+vs+europe+milit... ) So, I don't know where your opinion comes from. But I think you could be better informed ;) Ps. I do think we should buy less US and spend more European. Eg. The F-35 is a joke currently, considering the costs.

Collectively Europe outspends Russia in military investments. However, there is quite a bit of duplication in the individual European armies that make a straight comparison misleading. I suggest that military spending is not an accurate enough indicator of relative strength. Defense spending alone is meaningless if there is not an accompanying ability/willingness to project power. Russia is certainly not shy about pr…

> However, there is quite a bit of duplication in the individual European armies that make a straight comparison misleading.

x 4 doesn't justify "a bit of duplication"

The difference is big enough. If we talk GDP, Europe is > ~13 times Russia. And don't forget, the size of their troops were x 5 during the USSR. Guess how much that helped.

Propaganda vs reality ;)

PS. https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-a-big-shift-russians-take-to...

Quote: you are nothing with an army, if civilians aren't happy.

Re: US Pressed Dutch Gov over ASML Sale

#55

Post by yorwba »

dirtyid wrote: post #48
tooltalk wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also I didn't mean to implicate Samsung was behind the attacks ... Really? After describing XTAL as "owned by Chinese/Korean" when Samsung was just an outside investor and quoting ASML CEO accusing Samsung? Or how about your willful ignorance that Samsung had been a major 5+% "owner" of ASML under customer co-investment program since 2012? Sure, you may be right. I'm a software engineer, so I don't have any insight…

Samsung is a 30% shareholder of Xtal. Xtal became an immediate ASML competitor for Samsung semiconductor using the theft as implied by "our biggest Korean customer" quoted from ASML CEO in interviews. Stating Samsung is the immediate beneficiary of the theft as conjectured (AKA "hinted") by Dutch media based on ASML CEO interview at the time... is not neutral how? Lot's of IP shenanigan in high barrier semiconductor…

It's not too hard to dig up posts where you use "we" when referring to Canada. If you wanted to hide your nationality, you should have tried harder.

Re: US Pressed Dutch Gov over ASML Sale

#56

Post by Thiez »

yorwba wrote: post #55
dirtyid wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung is a 30% shareholder of Xtal. Xtal became an immediate ASML competitor for Samsung semiconductor using the theft as implied by "our biggest Korean customer" quoted from ASML CEO in interviews. Stating Samsung is the immediate beneficiary of the theft as conjectured (AKA "hinted") by Dutch media based on ASML CEO interview at the time... is not neutral how? Lot's of IP shenanigan in high barrier semiconductor…

It's not too hard to dig up posts where you use "we" when referring to Canada. If you wanted to hide your nationality, you should have tried harder.

How is their alleged Canadian nationality relevant, and where did they attempt to hide it?

Re: US Pressed Dutch Gov over ASML Sale

#57

Post by [deleted] »

sykick wrote: post #47
baybal2 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because Russians want to move their borders to Carpathians Russians will move their border as far as you allow them to. I know their mentality, for I am one, and I grew up in a town full of army and fleet people. I saw many types like that, before I got out of the country. Those will keep bully you more and more to see where you set the line, and punch them back. In their calculus, being punched back is not bad at…

It seems to me that Russia's desire for the Crimea is rational and understandable. It was an accident of history that the Ukraine ended up with Crimea after the split of the Soviet Union. I understand that my belief on this might not be rooted in reality. What is your view of Russia's Crimean desires?

[deleted]

Re: US Pressed Dutch Gov over ASML Sale

#58

Post by baybal2 »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #51
baybal2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man... what your economic policy will do to 30k units or armour, and 50k units in reserve? Russia is still 100% capable to just put reservists into t55s and send them in the general direction of Europe. The only two real option to stall them for Nato will be to redeploy US forces to Europe or use French nukes.

> Man... what your economic policy will do to 30k units or armour, and 50k units in reserve? Make 144,5 million Russians even more unhappy? https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-a-big-shift-russians-take-to... - dated: December 2019. What will the army / Putin do against much higher protests, if they continue to threat and receive more economic sanctions? This is why the USSR, at it's peak in 1980 x 5 of current Russia, fe…

> Make 144,5 million Russians even more unhappy?

Do they care when they talk of making populace "eat grass?" And I think they wouldn't even mind doing that and losing for as long as they "mess up your lawn"

From tiny pieces of what gets leaked, Putin hoped for nothing less than complete victory in both Georgia and Ukraine, and in both times it demonstrated that his generals were comically incompetent, causing lots of discontent in the military. Nevertheless, I think he still came out quite happy with just scaring the West away from those two countries, and messing up any prospect for a brighter future for them.

Re: US Pressed Dutch Gov over ASML Sale

#59

Post by yorwba »

Thiez wrote: post #56
yorwba wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not too hard to dig up posts where you use "we" when referring to Canada. If you wanted to hide your nationality, you should have tried harder.

How is their alleged Canadian nationality relevant, and where did they attempt to hide it?

I don't know, I was just curious once it got brought up.

Re: US Pressed Dutch Gov over ASML Sale

#60

Post by baybal2 »

sykick wrote: post #47
baybal2 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because Russians want to move their borders to Carpathians Russians will move their border as far as you allow them to. I know their mentality, for I am one, and I grew up in a town full of army and fleet people. I saw many types like that, before I got out of the country. Those will keep bully you more and more to see where you set the line, and punch them back. In their calculus, being punched back is not bad at…

It seems to me that Russia's desire for the Crimea is rational and understandable. It was an accident of history that the Ukraine ended up with Crimea after the split of the Soviet Union. I understand that my belief on this might not be rooted in reality. What is your view of Russia's Crimean desires?

> Russia's Crimean desires?

Russia's Crimean desire is Russia's desire for land and spoils of war. Nothing more nothing less.

Crimea just happened to be there with some historical justification with which they came months into the conflict. Russia was plainly unable to advance any much further beyond the line where Ukrainians were scared enough to fight them seriously.

Russophone sentiment? No, nonsense, otherwise they wouldn't be occupying Ukrainian majority regions, or allow ethnic Russians to be made hate crime victims in their own backyard (Armenia, Kazakhstan to some extend, and ethnic autonomies in Russia itself)

Their desire for Crimea is not much different from their desire from getting a cut of land on the Rheine, or french Riviera, or even your capitol hill if you allow them to.

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