Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019 • Hacker News Board

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#51

Post by adriang133 » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:46 AM UTC

kmlx wrote: post #30

gokhan wrote: post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

same in the UK. but more than that, in the UK in any intersection with traffic lights the pedestrians will never have a green light at the same time as cars. meanwhile, in most countries i've visited making a left or a right turn in an intersection will most likely cause you to stop for pedestrians that also get a green light. frustrating and illogical!

You have to stop at crossings yes, and it makes sense. Usually when there's a red light in one direction, the one perpendicular to it will have a green light.

Dublin is similar to the UK as far as I could tell, and honestly it felt like one of the worst design of traffic lights ever. Waiting for 2-3 minutes on a red light is pretty common, and green only lasts for 20-30 seconds. It's an absolute disaster for pedestrians, and as a result everyone jaywalks like crazy. I would say other countries have this right, even if drivers do have to give way to pedestrians immediately after a turn.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#52

Post by Sharlin » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:47 AM UTC

jka wrote: post #23

gambiting wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, because in some places like the UK, road infrastructure is intentionally made "difficult" as it has been proven to make drivers pay more attention and reduce accidents around those places.

Do you have a reference for that, out of interest? That might genuinely be the intention but I'd worry that -- depending on the kind of 'challenge' added to roads -- it might not always work out for the best.

The keyword to look up is ”traffic calming”. Making lanes narrower, adding curb extensions (bulbouts), gentle curves to otherwise straight roadways, and so on.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#53

Post by georgyo » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:47 AM UTC

curiousgal wrote: post #39

gokhan wrote: post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

Having lived in both the US and Europe, it's definitely less frequent in the US. But only because the streets are much wider making it scarier.

I think you are talking about jaywalking, but Europe and the US are really big.

In LA you get a ticket for jaywalking, while in NYC everyone crosses anywhere including weaving though moving traffic. And some cities in Maine the pedestrian always has the right away at cross walks and otherwise don't have lights.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#54

Post by smcl » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:49 AM UTC

kmlx wrote: post #30

gokhan wrote: post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

same in the UK. but more than that, in the UK in any intersection with traffic lights the pedestrians will never have a green light at the same time as cars. meanwhile, in most countries i've visited making a left or a right turn in an intersection will most likely cause you to stop for pedestrians that also get a green light. frustrating and illogical!

This is the case here - many pedestrian crossings aren't guarded by lights but by stripes on the road. There is one beside my work which is incredibly poorly timed. It turns green for pedestrians about 10 seconds after a traffic light goes green for cars further down the road - where it takes about 9 seconds for cars to accelerate to ~40kph and reach the crossing. I've personally seen one person get hit (driver sped off, obviously) and countless near-misses because of this, and I've no doubt it will get someone killed one day.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#55

Post by yason » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:49 AM UTC

tyfon wrote: post #43

It's quite hard to drive in Oslo now. Not impossible but it's not very fun and the speed limits are very low. When I have to go inside "ring 1", I usually drive to a free parking/charging spot for electric cars and walk from there. It's quite close to aker brygge and close to the high way. Back when I was living in Oslo (and didn't have children) I didn't have a car at all, no need for it.

This is roughly how people should behave in a city centre, and Oslo has been working on nudging towards that. Hence, driving is not fun in the centre as it shouldn't be and speed limits should minimise pedestrian injuries. The difference in fatalities and serious injuries drops a great deal when going from 40 km/h to 30 km/h.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#56

Post by thatfrenchguy » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:49 AM UTC

kmlx wrote: post #30

gokhan wrote: post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

same in the UK. but more than that, in the UK in any intersection with traffic lights the pedestrians will never have a green light at the same time as cars. meanwhile, in most countries i've visited making a left or a right turn in an intersection will most likely cause you to stop for pedestrians that also get a green light. frustrating and illogical!

“Right on red” in the US is a disgrace :-)

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#57

Post by imafish » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:50 AM UTC

INTPenis wrote: post #15

gokhan wrote: post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

That's not different at all. Why would Norwegians be different from other humans? I can confirm that Swedes and danes do this too. And being of croatian descent I can confirm they do it there too. It's not a cultural thing, it's a human thing to be impatient. If anything it speaks of the flow of traffic. Here in Sweden you can often safely cross the street because the entire length of the street has lights that work…

I do not see this often in Denmark.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#58

Post by erikbye » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:50 AM UTC

glutamate wrote: post #40

erikbye wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway doesn't even make a dent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

That doesn't count the emissions from oil & gas extracted from Norwegian fields and exported.

Yes, it counts the extraction, and export is through gas pipes, it does not pollute. Besides, extraction pollutes very little, too.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#59

Post by hycaria » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:51 AM UTC

filmor wrote: post #50

hycaria wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive been shouted at in Germany for crossing at red light, even with no car in sight, and for how bad an example this was for children at the scene.

Rightly so. Children can't (as reliable as you) decide how safe it is in a given situation to cross.

Child was holding the hand of the shouting Oma.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#60

Post by merijnv » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:51 AM UTC

jka wrote: post #23

gambiting wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, because in some places like the UK, road infrastructure is intentionally made "difficult" as it has been proven to make drivers pay more attention and reduce accidents around those places.

Do you have a reference for that, out of interest? That might genuinely be the intention but I'd worry that -- depending on the kind of 'challenge' added to roads -- it might not always work out for the best.

I know this approach is used in residential areas in the Netherlands. A lot of these streets are designated as "woonerf" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_street), which means that everything has right of way on cars (i.e. pedestrians, bikes, playing kids, whatever).

The design is often (intentionally) tricky to navigate. Brick/cobble roads to make driving fast uncomfortable. Planter's narrowing/blocking half the road, resulting in the road frequently being limited to a single lane (often alternating sides) so cars can't simultaneously pass. Frequent 90 degree turns, that sorta thing. It make it impossible to drive fast on these roads.

Note that this is only applied in some "zones", generally this applies to streets with houses, which will then connect up to a 30 km/h max road that is less obstructed and functions as a connecting artery to main roads in the city/town and eventually provincial roads (80 km/h) or highways.

Each classification has different goals, so highways and provincial roads are "vehicles only", cyclists and pedestrians will be on completely separate unconnected paths (usually with several meters of separation from the main road).

Main roads will have both cars and cyclists, but usually separate/designated bike lanes (and sometimes even separated bike paths). Only the 30km/h and woonerf streets really have bikes and cars mixed on the same lane (and will have measures that restrict car speed like I mentioned above).