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Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

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Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#51

Post by segfaultbuserr »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #28
noodlesUK wrote: post #10

What’s intensely frustrating about this is that audio equipment is one of the few areas where old high end kit is still absolutely fantastic for current users. I have an NAD 3020 from the 1980s which works perfectly with the same pair of speakers that it was bought with. I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed.

Millennial audiophools need their 192kHz 32-bit playback. Grandpa's sound system just won't cut it for reproducing those refined ultrasonics.

I don't think it's the reason.

A pair of good speakers is the most useful equipment in audio. If I'm a millennial audiophool and want 192 kHz / 32-bit PCM, I'll simply put a new DAC in front of the original Hi-Fi amplifier. I won't throw the perfectly usable system away.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#52

Post by tasty_freeze »

About 8(?) years ago my wife tasked me to get a whole-house audio system that was simple to use. After reading a lot, sonos was the clear choice, though pricey. We started with two play:3's, then added a play:5 and two more play:3's. And things were good.

But for the past year the system has been a mess. Music stutters, some units can't be found, some units fail to upgrade through multiple retries/reboots. I've wasted so many hours relocating them and connecting the misbehaving units to an ethernet cable trying to get them to update.

Eventually things get working again after hours of blind tinkering, but then a month or two later it happens again.

My wife looks to me as the tech guy to solve it, but it is far more opaque to debug then when PCs misbehave. Yes, I know about the secret diag menus and login, but they don't really help me.

The point is: my wife resents that the system doesn't work, and I resent that I've wasted so much time and my wife thinks I'm shirking because every time it comes up I groan and put off the pain of getting it working again.

I won't brick these -- I'll find some use case where they do work, but I'll get some other system to make my wife happy, even if it means spending another $1200+.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#53

Post by bathtub365 »

maweki wrote: post #20
egdod wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be illegal? And what’s the difference between illegal and incredibly illegal anyway?

There's "illegal but we'll do it anyway since any penalty is less than what we made because of it" and there's "it's illegal so let's not do it as it puts our CEO in jail". I thought this was obvious.

What would be illegal about it? Plenty of devices have hardware usage tied to software activation so there’s years of precedent of this being acceptable.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#54

Post by sfuller808 »

Angostura wrote: post #26
baybal2 wrote: post #7

Well, this is where the industry is going. The latest buzzword we hear in the industry is called "product as a service" — you buy a product, but still don't own it. You have to keep paying them for using your own property or else they remotely brick the device. First gen Ipods were a prime example, but now everybody seem to want to do the same. We recently had a prospective client who had an idea of very cheap intern…

> First gen Ipods were a prime example Eh what?

because they were tied to itunes?

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#55

Post by michaelmrose »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #41
starsinspace wrote: post #19

So Sonos devices need "activation" via some server on the internet? Why? If I just want to stream audio within my own home, why is internet even necessary? And what happens when Sonos goes out of business and the servers are shut down? I just don't understand why people keep buying such things...

When expensive devices have to "phone home" to first be enabled, that kills the aftermarket for stolen expensive devices?

I feel bad about it but I rather wish it worked this way for expensive power tools. I don't want permanent drm for tools I just want a one time lock that is forever disabled upon purchase. Perhaps electronically while being purchased.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#56

Post by majormajor »

starsinspace wrote: post #19

So Sonos devices need "activation" via some server on the internet? Why? If I just want to stream audio within my own home, why is internet even necessary? And what happens when Sonos goes out of business and the servers are shut down? I just don't understand why people keep buying such things...

The convenience seems to be worth the risk, IMO. The Sonos sound quality is great for the form factor/space, I don't have to run wires anymore, and I'm not lugging around a bunch of bookshelves and making room for them + a receiver... I'll go back to that world if I have to, but for now, the Sonos stuff was more appealing after a couple moves and starting from scratch.

This recycle mode stuff is terrible, though.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#57

Post by baybal2 »

Angostura wrote: post #26
baybal2 wrote: post #7

Well, this is where the industry is going. The latest buzzword we hear in the industry is called "product as a service" — you buy a product, but still don't own it. You have to keep paying them for using your own property or else they remotely brick the device. First gen Ipods were a prime example, but now everybody seem to want to do the same. We recently had a prospective client who had an idea of very cheap intern…

> First gen Ipods were a prime example Eh what?

On early Ipods music was effectively "glued" to the individual player with a primitive DRM/scambling system.

So, you were dead in the water without Itunes that kept the fairplay key for that particular player

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#58

Post by cptskippy »

bathtub365 wrote: post #45
wayoutthere wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they would have to continue supporting those devices, which isn’t part of the planned obsolescence business model. It would also dilute the luxury brand halo that Sonos has tried to cultivate. It’s more like Louis Vuitton getting into the secondhand market. They too would (and do) destroy merchandise rather than let it get sold at a discount and dilute the brand value.

They’ve actually done a pretty good job of being backwards-compatible and even enabling features on older speakers if they’re grouped with newer ones. For example, having an AirPlay 2 speaker in a group means that all speakers in the group will receive sound through AirPlay 2, even if they didn’t support AirPlay in the first place. That makes this even more puzzling.

Didn't they face huge backlash a few years back when they EOLed still functional kit people owned and used?

* It was the CR100 Controller they updated to no longer be able to control devices it previously could.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#59

Post by TylerE »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #28
noodlesUK wrote: post #10

What’s intensely frustrating about this is that audio equipment is one of the few areas where old high end kit is still absolutely fantastic for current users. I have an NAD 3020 from the 1980s which works perfectly with the same pair of speakers that it was bought with. I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed.

Millennial audiophools need their 192kHz 32-bit playback. Grandpa's sound system just won't cut it for reproducing those refined ultrasonics.

You really do need a high quality DAC for a modern system. Older systems won't have a DAC at all, much less a good one.

That is a big deal unless it's a system 100% dedicated to vinyl.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#60

Post by JonathonW »

cissou wrote: post #49

Am I misunderstanding something? Once in recycle mode you're supposed to send them back so that Sonos can actually recycle (or even reuse, nothing stops them from refurbishing) the old device. Recycle mode seems to simply be a convenience so that people can get the 30% rebate immediately once they've shown they're serious about sending back the device. What sucks is that you have to trade up to recycle, if they offer…

Sonos doesn't take back the used devices: they expect users to give them to a local electronics recycler for recycling, where they essentially have to be scrapped, because devices in "recycle mode" are blacklisted in Sonos's servers and can't be resold (even if they're in perfect working order).
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